What a SURPRISE!

[Excaliber]

fstd, do you have any reasonable suggestions about how to deal with these folks? Who represent perhaps the tip of the iceberg of needed health care reform of some kind for many different groups?

We nuked their homeland, ruined their fishing, their way of life, made many of their islands uninhabitable, basically forever. What do you suggest we do now, seriously. WHAT do you think we should do with this group?

I'M all ready doing MY part by paying Hawaii State Tax. I don't have the answers, but it's bigger than a one man or a one state problem.

I sure here a lot about "taking responsibility" around here. Well step up to the plate then, take some responsibility if it's warranted for what the US did to these folks.

"Forced Relocation", that is the official position of the US on this group of people.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I did not say WHO should care for the Micronesians. If you don't think the Federal Government should, well OK then, your opinion is noted. I don't think Hawaii should, that's my opinion. Maybe we can get the Red Cross to fund it? Or, what the hell, let them die, there not US citizens anyway. Whatever your opinion is, you WILL make a bioethicist decision on it.

It's not my decision to make who will take care of, pay for the micronesians, but I find it intereseting that the US GOVERNMENT ALREADY MADE A COMMITMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM, LIKE THE COMMITMENT OBAMA IS MAKING TO US, TO TAKE CARE OF US, YET THEY'RE ULTIMATELY NOT TAKING CARE OF THE MICRONESIANS OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE OF MONEY. IS THIS WHAT WE SHOULD BE EXPECTING AS WELL IF THE GOV TAKES OVER HEALTH CARE?

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Under our current plan we have ALL READY made that call. Those who can afford it, get it, those who can't, won't. If you need a liver transplant and don't have the money, your not likely to get it on "in time" to save your life. That kind of decision, is based on economics, lifestyle, citizenship and a number of other factors. Life and death decisions like this NEED to be challenged from time to time, checks and balances you see.

Ahhhh, transplantation, one of my favorite subjects. I trained in the transplant capital in the world. Guess where? Anyways I participated in many transplants, I say participated because it takes a team of multiple doctors, nurses, and technicians to perform these services. I have been involved in many transplants, kidneys, hearts, lungs, and my personal favorite, livers. Without going into grusome detail, I can tell you that yes, there were some people thatseemed to jump in line for transplants due to money, fame, or both. However, most of the transplants were given to "normal" people, some with insurance and others without. I dare not say more. I was never involved in the decision making of who was the next candidate, nor did I want to be. Oh, the stories I could tell.


Reminds me of a previous thread about the Canadian system, where they tend not to do as many transplants due to inefficiency of the organ procurement. Well, that's a cost saving for the system, at the expense of people's lives.

[fastd]

Ex,

A couple of things:

You have hijacked this conversation in favor of the plight of Micronesians. And, in the process as Anthony points out, want all Americans to suffer the same fate as the Micronesians that you feel so badly for. You are complaining that the Micronesians have been wronged; who are we all going to complain to when all American's are wronged exactly the same way in the future when it turns out public health care is not feasable? It makes absolutely no sense.

With respect to doing your part by paying Hawaii State Tax; if you are in favor of Public Healthcare, you obviously will be asked to do a lot more in order to pay for the costs of public health care. If you are not doing a lot more personally right now, what right do you to ask others to do more? Who is to say how much you should be forced to contribute? What right to do have to compel the "rich" to pay more? The argument that you will be willing to do more when everybody pays does not hold water. You don't need your Cobra - so sell it and give the money to save a 100 Micronesians so they can get their dialysis. Do you think I have the right to force you to do that? That is what you are advocating.

As for a specific answer to the Micronesian problem, that is really a separate question. However, if the US Government made a promise, it should be kept; unfortunately our Government has spent itself into such a hole, our ability to make good on our promises is becoming more and more doubtful.

[Excaliber]

Man I agree with the part about I don't want to make those decisions, who gets a transplant, who lives, who dies, who does or doesn't get care.

But they are important issues.

I suspect the Fed Gov has been shirking it's responsibility on the Micronesians because Hawaii has been footing the bill for so long. No squeaking wheel, no grease.

fstd, I'm not complaining about anything, I'm simply pointing out the moral delima we as a Nation face. I don't have a good solution for it, maybe there isn't one. Could be a Micronesian issue, could be a Las Vegas clinic closing issue, that left a couple thousand people without chemo. There are plenty of examples to pick from.

[Jamo]

Just what the hell are you guys talking about?

...or does it matter?

[Excaliber]

Micronesians from Las Vegas...

[Jamo]

Thanks...much appreciated.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

fstd, do you have any reasonable suggestions about how to deal with these folks? Who represent perhaps the tip of the iceberg of needed health care reform of some kind for many different groups?

We nuked their homeland, ruined their fishing, their way of life, made many of their islands uninhabitable, basically forever. What do you suggest we do now, seriously. WHAT do you think we should do with this group?

I'M all ready doing MY part by paying Hawaii State Tax. I don't have the answers, but it's bigger than a one man or a one state problem.

I sure here a lot about "taking responsibility" around here. Well step up to the plate then, take some responsibility if it's warranted for what the US did to these folks.

"Forced Relocation", that is the official position of the US on this group of people.

Here's an idea - gather up all your cash, sell all your assets (including your Cobra) and send it to the Federal Government or give it to a charity that will help the nukees. Have all you liberal friends do that same thing - problem solved!

By the way, how can you possibly justify owning and driving a Cobra when there is so much good you could do by selling it to eradicate hunger, etc - plus the gas consumption is creating global warming. Are you a very bad liberal, just trying to get other people to walk your talk? Isn't it time for you to 'do something personnally' instead of posting 'stuff to do' 12,000+ times here?

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

. Are you a very bad liberal, just trying to get other people to walk your talk? Isn't it time for you to 'do something personnally' instead of posting 'stuff to do' 12,000+ times here?

That's what Liberal's do,spend other's money & time.

[Jamo]

Okey dokey...this one's run out.