Superformance & ERA owners I need your help!

[Rickd]

I am jealous that you live in Ct., as ERA is in New Britain .. and they build the best glass bodied cobra on the market. Incredibly well engineered, fit and finish superb. I had another brand for two years, had a chance to drive an ERA and am now fortunate to have my new ERA FIA with just under 5000 miles on it in the garage. Go check them out. They build a 289 FIA body, a 289 Slab Side body, and a 427 SC body. The 289 and 427 are different chassis. Visual details of engine compartment, cockpit, trunk, body shape = identical to originals.

[Excaliber]

I'm not sure a ride in an SPF vs ERA is going to reveal a lot, or be different enough to be a determining factor. #1 you have to consider potential difference in engines AND gear ratio's. Which can vary widely for any replica and makes a HUGE difference in over all driveability, feel and soul.

Now a lot of ERA's follow the same basic recipe, FE with a top loader and 3:31 rear gear. There fairly consistent in that regard. SPF's are all ove the map! Small block, big block, 5 speed (with widely varying gear ratios), four speed. Because the RIDE itself is going to be similiar the variance is going to be about how the individual setup of motor, trans, rear gear ratio, cam profile and carb setup work together. That kind of "feel" for the ride can really only be done by actually driving the car yourself for many miles under different conditions. Something that is not likely going to happen.

I have, in my mind, what I consider to be the "perfect" setup for specs for a STREET and occasional track car. My current car does not meet those exacting specifications, but it's close enough. Which is almost ALWAYS the case, perfection is a very illusive prize, if you come close to your ideal, you done good!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I have, in my mind, what I consider to be the "perfect" setup for specs for a STREET and occasional track car.

Well, it's a slow day... I'd be willing to listen.

[Excaliber]

Well, here's the BASICS for best driveability for street, occasional track and remaining at least partially true to the "spirit" of a Cobra. This is NOT going to be a "show" car.

FE (of course we start there), unless it's an FIA style, then we might go 351W. Carb: While I prefer the center pivot single four for the track, I want a vacuum secondary for the street. Street is the most miles, so default to vacuum secondary.
Not to big, runs LEAN, we will build the motor to deal with that.

Stroke it! 427 with a 428 crank will do the job, or something equal. Or a 428 with a mild stroke or left stock. Heck even a well built 390 would work well here! What we want here is TORQUE for the street. Pistons: The standard FE's series motor have the pistons to low far below the deck to address "quench". Bring the pistons up to .005 below deck. The heads are closed chamber style or you won't gain any quench from moving the pistons up. Alloy heads, go for about 10 maybe 10.5 compression ratio. With quench, we MIGHT be able to go 11 to 1, alloy heads. Iron heads 9.5 to 10 MAX. This assumes pump gas, 92 octane. FORGED pistons, by the way.

Camshaft profile. Couple of things here to watch for. GOT to have a "lumpy" idle, sounds mean sitting a stop light. Hydraulic roller, OK (MIGHT NOT provide the lumpy idle)! Solid roller with pressure feed, OK. Flat tappet, OK. Don't need high rpm, 6000 or so will be enough. Lumpy idle cam means your likely over a 6000 rpm limit anyway, thats OK. 6200-6400 will be fine for the track. Cam profile needs to work well in the CRUISING rpm range. With our 5 speed OD trans (still need exacting specs for the trans) engine rpm should come in around 2000 at cruise rpm and the cam profile should work well in that range.

Trans: 5 speed with gear ratio's equal to a top loader on the bottom four. OD will be point 8 (NOT .6). Forward facing gear shift of course. Rear gear ratio, IRS of course, should fall around the typical Jaguar setup of 3:31.

Timing: This is a CRITICAL area often over looked. We want this part DIALED IN to work well with our quench, compression ratio, carb setup and street driveability. Were going to need LOTS of advance for BASE timing. 16 to 18 minimum, 20 is likely. Our "lumpy" cam will demand it. Set timing to "just below" the starter having a hard time cranking the engine over. Again, the quench is a big factor here, we can run 38 total, maybe a bit more with our quench. We want as much timing as possible! VACUUM advance unit is a must. About 10 degrees advance from that, I prefer direct intake vacuum for the signal. That gives us better idle conditions and a LOT less tendency to "diesel" on shut down. At high mph cruise rpm, with mechanical and vacuum advance were looking at about 45 degrees total, maybe 50 or so. We likely WON'T get full mechanical advance at reasonable cruise rpm, so were going to rely on the vacuum signal to get it up.

While I LOVE the Goodyear bill boards, their not rugged enough for long distance cruising. Consider a set of radials (15" or 16", 15 preferred). I'm not crazy about street drag tires for a long distance cruiser.

A little bigger gas tank, 20 gallon minimum for decent range between stops.

Soft top, side windows, heater/defroster. Another set of wheels with track tires mounted and ready to swap on is a real plus! Get some decent looking wheels while your at, not some Chip Foose or whatever chrome bling thing! Shesssh, that is my number 1 pet peeve. Cup holders, coffee for cruising. I have some ideas here, but thats a huge variable how to get it done.

Less chrome, more paint! Keep the shiny bits to a minimum and DON'T start polishing stuff. You will spend WAY to much time worrying about the shine going away! Remember, it's a CRUISER for long trips, a DRIVER car, not a show car.

Oh, and single roll bar, chrome is OK there. Quick jacks look GOOD, but the full bumpers front and rear might be more practical, tough call. No sidepipe covers, learn to step away from the sidepipes getting in or out. Be proud of the "snake bite" burn scars on your lower legs until you figure it out.

[patrickt]

Well I won't argue too much -- you've described about 98% of my build.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Less chrome, more paint! Keep the shiny bits to a minimum and DON'T start polishing stuff. You will spend WAY to much time worrying about the shine going away! Remember, it's a CRUISER for long trips, a DRIVER car, not a show car.

Oh, and single roll bar, chrome is OK there. Quick jacks look GOOD, but the full bumpers front and rear might be more practical, tough call. No sidepipe covers, learn to step away from the sidepipes getting in or out. Be proud of the "snake bite" burn scars on your lower legs until you figure it out.

Darn it! Note to Self. Next time. Less shiny stuff.

You had to mention the "single roll bar." Here goes Patrick.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You had to mention the "single roll bar." Here goes Patrick.

Naah, that falls in the 2% along with vacuum advance distributor.

[RMHINC]

Lloyd, I looked @ ERA, SPF & Backdraft. I didn't drive an ERA but drove SPF & BDR. I liked both cars but I ended up going with Backdraft. I actualy liked the handling & performance. I ended up meeting Jay @ Vintage and that was key since I live in Greenwich about 45 minutes away. I can't say enough about those guys! They are a pleasure to deal with and they know & stand behind the product! Personally I like the 2" longer wheel base & I think the car handles better & the interior space is larger. Engine of choice is a Roush 427 with a TKO 600/ 5 speed. If you want to go for another ride in a BDR let me know.
Rick

BDR GT 40
65 Vette coupe
BDR Cobra
67 GT 500 R
SL 55 AMG
06 BMW M 5

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Carb: While I prefer the center pivot single four for the track, I want a vacuum secondary for the street. Street is the most miles, so default to vacuum secondary.

FWIW, my "old school" Holley 4160 has both center hung pivots and vacuum secondaries. Plus, everything on the secondary metering plate is really easy to adjust (you can't). The carb is great. Seriously.

[Excaliber]

You know I'm REALLY open to critique on the "perfect" specs for a long distance DRIVER Cobra setup. It's something I've been contemplating for years and it's a moving target. I want to stay within reasonable bounds of "accuracy", but I could live with air conditioning, for instance! A hard top might be a good call, but your stuck with it once you hit the road. Fuel injection has some advantages but is to "modern" to be seriously considered for myself.

Suggestions?

Show car? Bring on the bling! Shiny is cool. RodKnock is all over the "shiny" stuff.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Show car? Bring on the bling! Shiny is cool. RodKnock is all over the "shiny" stuff.

I remember it like yesterday, before the engine and tranny were installed. The shop and I were discussing polishing the inner fenders, under the hood and elsewhere inside the engine compartment. I finally decided that would be way too blingy and shiny for me. I didn't want my car to be some poser car.

[Excaliber]

Well there ya go. I didn't know a center pivot float was available with vacuum secondary. Thats becomes a valid option! You could also make a case for dual carbs under the premise that they offer better fuel distribution, thus potentially equaling or even bettering the performance (power, looks, mpg) of a single carb. I would have to exclude Webers for the lack of decent mpg (range consideration) and the complexity of an air cleaner arrangement for our "cruiser" application.

Whoa, under the fenders too? Oh boy, thats over the top for sure!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well there ya go. I didn't know a center pivot float was available with vacuum secondary. Thats becomes a valid option! You could also make a case for dual carbs under the premise that they offer better fuel distribution, thus potentially equaling or even bettering the performance (power, looks, mpg) of a single carb.

No, dual carbs won't fit inside my custom removable turkey pan.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Whoa, under the fenders too? Oh boy, thats over the top for sure!

There were some pics posted some time back by Ron (Computerworks) who attended one of the fairly recent Kirkham Summits and one of the pics he posted here was of a brushed finish Kirkham with a fully polished Cammer under the hood. Now that's what I'm talking about. Stealth on the outside and "some" bling under the hood.

[Excaliber]

Just to clear up MY OWN confusion on the carb issue:

The CENTER pivot is the LONG carb like the Comp cars ran, right? To long to run on a dual carb application. The SIDE pivot is what 90% of the carbs out there are like, with the inherent tendency for "fuel slosh" under high G loads (braking, cornering)?

Three center pivot and one side pivot shown here:

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Just to clear up MY OWN confusion on the carb issue:

The single four barrel had center hung floats that prevented slosh when going around corners. Dual four barrels have the side hung floats. They tend to give more horsepower on the dyno, but are not as friendly in a road race setting unless modified. Here's an easy way to remember: If you don't want to slosh, get what Patrickt has.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Getting away from the original question/statement: If you want a Cobra that looks and rides like an original, go with ERA. They are built in the spirit of the original 427 Shelby Cobra. All the others mentioned are compromised with modern components and CHROME. If you need a fast modern Cobra on steroids, go with BDR. If you want a quality modern Cobra with modern components and good driveability, go with SPF.
No matter where I go, I'm asked (by old timers) "Is it an original?" That's about the best compliment I can hope for. I simply say "It's an ERA from New Britain". It rides as well as any with absolutely no shakes or rattles or squeaks. It's tight, brakes straight, and comes out of the hole like a bull in a china shop.

[Excaliber]

I don't think the recent dialog of what makes for a "good" Cobra is to far off the path as it considers the basic question, SPF or ERA, in this thread.

When shopping for a Cobra one would be well advised to consider those options that result in good overall street specification car. Regardless of make or model. Both SPF and ERA can come pretty close to what I would consider the "best" options for a mostly street driven car. OTHER criteria would have to be applied for a "show" car or a "race" car. SPF or ERA could easily fit any of the above catagories with different emphasis on the specs.

For "race", I would seriously consider an FFR based on price, performance, ease of maintanence and parts availability. But it would not be my first choice for primarily street use, for example.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I don't think the recent dialog of what makes for a "good" Cobra is to far off the path as it considers the basic question, SPF or ERA, in this thread.

There are two reasons why someone would go with an SPF over a Turnkey-built ERA: 1) SPFs are cheaper; and 2) You can get an SPF much quicker. Structurally, mechanically, and aestherically an ERA outshines an SPF. It's as simple as that.

[RAO-3]

Originally Posted by patrickt

There are two reasons why someone would go with an SPF over a Turnkey-built ERA: 1) SPFs are cheaper; and 2) You can get an SPF much quicker. Structurally, mechanically, and aestherically an ERA outshines an SPF. It's as simple as that.

Patrick, you also forgot - only ERA has Peter!

-RAy