list of "lost" CSX numbered Cobras

[map]

Did Bruce fine one of the 2 last seen in the Burg in the 60s?

[PANAVIA]

I am less and less impressed with the original CSX2000/3000 cars every day and the stigma they seem to bring with them.

There is so much total BS in the various CSX 2000/3000 circles that it sometimes makes me sick.

In contrast, most of the SPF, FF , ERA, AC and CSX 4000/6000/7000/8000/9000 owners I have met over the past few years have been wonderful, and I consider some close personal friends.

So when someone asks "how-many-undiscovered-60's-cobras-there-are" in my personal opinion - Who-the &@* Cares!!!

My suggestion -- Go build what you wanted when you were 14, and have a good time! -

-- meet some friends and help your fellow enthusiasts build their dreams, dont horde information and parts for only the "cool kids" to use, its just lame-ass-lame.

Building Dreams, one car at a time----

Steve

[mtml427]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

I am less and less impressed with the original CSX2000/3000 cars every day and the stigma they seem to bring with them.

There is so much total BS in the various CSX 2000/3000 circles that it sometimes makes me sick.

In contrast, most of the SPF, FF , ERA, AC and CSX 4000/6000/7000/8000/9000 owners I have met over the past few years have been wonderful, and I consider some close personal friends.

So when someone asks "how-many-undiscovered-60's-cobras-there-are" in my personal opinion - Who-the &@* Cares!!!

My suggestion -- Go build what you wanted when you were 14, and have a good time! -

-- meet some friends and help your fellow enthusiasts build their dreams, dont horde information and parts for only the "cool kids" to use, its just lame-ass-lame.

Building Dreams, one car at a time----

Steve

Well said.

[jay bentley]

Is it the 2000 and 3000 series cars that you are less impressed with or their owners?

What type of BS takes place in the 2000 and 3000 circles? Just curious.

[Excaliber]

NOT well said, in my opinion.

I like the history of the originals, the mystery in some cases, the debates, the minutiae of the details. I don't see it as some kind of "special owners club". Current and past owners are merely stewards of a car that will outlive them and continue on down history's path. To that end I'm grateful that many current and past owners grace our little forum with their presence, insights and details as it concerns the cars. Thanks guys (original owners)!

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by jay bentley

Is it the 2000 and 3000 series cars that you are less impressed with or their owners?

What type of BS takes place in the 2000 and 3000 circles? Just curious.

When TWO cars are built with the remains of one car (which was totally destroyed) such as CSX 2136, that is total BS. Say what you will, but these cars are worse than fakes...they are counterfeit. How many more of these original fakes are in the registry? At least all the guys here on CC (maybe all except one) don't try to pass their cars off as real.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

When TWO cars are built with the remains of one car (which was totally destroyed) such as CSX 2136, that is total BS. Say what you will, but these cars are worse than fakes...they are counterfeit. How many more of these original fakes are in the registry? At least all the guys here on CC (maybe all except one) don't try to pass their cars off as real.

That's why we have a registry. To keep track of this info. It's not like people sat down 30 years ago and said "let me try to defraud the world". Cars got smashed, wrecked, destroyed, etc, and people who loved the cars wanted to save them. Sometimes that meant replacing the body and or frame. When you've got a limited edition piece of history, you try to save it best you can. Sometimes the remains of a wrecked car would wind up with different people, and multiple claims popped up as to the legit owner is. That's why we document the history and make it available to the public. YOU know the deal with 2136, and so does the rest of the serious Cobra enthusiast world. No serious potential buyer of that car (or any other contraversial car) is going to NOT know the history. It's history. Sh*t happens. Mistakes get made. It's documented for the masses. That's all we can do.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

That's why we have a registry. To keep track of this info. It's not like people sat down 30 years ago and said "let me try to defraud the world". Cars got smashed, wrecked, destroyed, etc, and people who loved the cars wanted to save them. Sometimes that meant replacing the body and or frame. When you've got a limited edition piece of history, you try to save it best you can. Sometimes the remains of a wrecked car would wind up with different people, and multiple claims popped up as to the legit owner is. That's why we document the history and make it available to the public. YOU know the deal with 2136, and so does the rest of the serious Cobra enthusiast world. No serious potential buyer of that car (or any other contraversial car) is going to NOT know the history. It's history. Sh*t happens. Mistakes get made. It's documented for the masses. That's all we can do.

When one of these cars show up at one of these 'hype' auctions (you know the ones), potential buyers are there with lots of cash to spend but not lots of research done. Many buy with emotion. Who is there to protect them from these 'original' cars? As time (years) goes by, these 'originals' tend to blend in with the rest. In my opinion, they are counterfeit.

[Excaliber]

Who is there to protect them from these 'original' cars?

Or any other car for that matter! Fact is the original Cobra's are likely THE most protected marque of ALL collector cars. Buyer beware BIG TIME when it comes Corvettes, Hemi Cuda's and a LONG list of other potential clones, fakes, and makeovers. EASY to get away with that with a Vette, all but impossible to pull it off with a Cobra. Thanks to SAAC and the tight group of original owners. The work they have done will follow these cars far far into the future. An extraordinary job that commands some serious respect, at least, from me.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Or any other car for that matter! Fact is the original Cobra's are likely THE most protected marque of ALL collector cars. Buyer beware BIG TIME when it comes Corvettes, Hemi Cuda's and a LONG list of other potential clones, fakes, and makeovers. EASY to get away with that with a Vette, all but impossible to pull it off with a Cobra. Thanks to SAAC and the tight group of original owners. The work they have done will follow these cars far far into the future. An extraordinary job that commands some serious respect, at least, from me.

While they do not cover the 100% of their marques, Pontiac Historical Society (PHS) documents Pontiacs, Glovier covers Mopars, Marti covers Fords and Vettes after 1966 have build sheets, if available. Tigers have TAC (Tiger Authentication Committee). Etc., etc., etc. Obviously cars with documentation get more money than those without. Remember, Chevy has been making Vettes since 1953, but they only built about 1,000 Cobras.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

When one of these cars show up at one of these 'hype' auctions (you know the ones), potential buyers are there with lots of cash to spend but not lots of research done. Many buy with emotion. Who is there to protect them from these 'original' cars? As time (years) goes by, these 'originals' tend to blend in with the rest. In my opinion, they are counterfeit.

If someone is dumb enough to spend 6 or 7 figures on a car without checking it's history, then they deserve what they get.

It's not like the cars at the big auctions are secrets until auction day. People have plenty of time to research such a big purchase.

[Excaliber]

Here that Sal! I could see that happening with a nice (fake) Hemi Cuda or Vette or something in the low 100's. But a HALF MILLION dollar car? Not likely, and if so, to bad sucker!

[RodKnock]

So as long as you're ignorant, stupid, uneducated, etc., then it's OK break the laws to rip those types of people off.

Is fraud only illegal when ithe buyer is able to figure it out?

[Excaliber]

You missed the point. When somebody has a half million to drop on a TOY you could logically conclude they also are relatively "smart". Smart enough to do their homework. But, even smart people DO get caught up in scams, even Cobra scams. Without SAAC's work, that would be the NORM rather than the EXCEPTION.

Fake Cobra's are very very rare indeed, you don't even have to be "that smart" to figure out if one is real or not. One phone call will get you pretty well dialed in right off the bat!

ONE POST on Club Cobra and you WILL know the truth within 48 hours, I gaurentee it! Buyer posts, "I'm thinking about buying CSX-2XA5, what do you guys know about the car?" UH, hello, THAT car doesn't even EXIST! Or totally no way is for sale, or whatever.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Is fraud only illegal when ithe buyer is able to figure it out?

No. Do you remember Groucho's TV game show and how that stupid little bird would drop down on a wire? Well if the bird did that today, the word would be "scienter."

[Excaliber]

...well it aint the first time Patrickt has sent me off to do the google...

scienter, a fitting word for a fraud.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...well it aint the first time Patrickt has sent me off to do the google...

... and I doubt it will be the last.

[Nedsel]

There seem to be some folks posting here who don't know what they are talking about. If you want to slam the SAAC registry and suggest it condones cars with duplicate VINs, my suggestion would be to at least read the damn thing first. In the case of 2136, for example, it is quite clear that the car given the VIN 21356R is a fraud. The car was supposed to have been given an assigned VIN nothing like a Cobra number, and no one is certain how the owner got away with conning whatever DMV allowed the 2136R designation, even if the R was meant to stand for REPRODUCTION. Either way, there is only one legitimate 2136, and it doesn't have an R anywhere in its chassis number.

[cobrajeff]

ONE POST on Club Cobra and you WILL know the truth within 48 hours, I guarantee it! Buyer posts, "I'm thinking about buying CSX-2XA5, what do you guys know about the car?" UH, hello, THAT car doesn't even EXIST!

....and I'll bet that, NINE times out of TEN, the answer is somebody quoting out of the SAAC World Registry on the history of the car.

The Internet is a fantastic tool, it allows us to instantly share all kinds of knowledge. Let's not forget, however the years of dedication and perseverance that guys like Ned, Howard, Rick, Dave, Greg, and Vinnie have invested in doing the research and following these cars over time, so that we can all be wiser and more informed.

Jeff

[Excaliber]

Yes, I totally agree. 9 times out of 10 you will know within a few hours, or minutes, if the car is worth pursuing or is a pipe dream because someone will "quote the registry". Thanks to the perserverance of those dedicated individuals who assemble and maintain it!