Another California registration adventure

[nkb]

It appears that Superformance, Backdraft, and Caterham California registrations are all being held up. The BAR referee won't schedule an appointment to allow registration. Reason being given is that these cars are "turnkey". The Caterham community blames Superformance for having delivered turnkey cars. Caterham is accused of skirting the regulations by shipping their drivetrains separate from the rest of the car and then reassembling into a turnkey. The fact that Caterham delivers turnkey cars in the UK doesn't help either.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by nkb

It appears that ...

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

I agree. This is called "Money Whipping" It can solve most problems...

[Cobalt289]

Having read so many of the SB100 posts in this forum and others, and having gone through the process myself, and having helped a few other guys go through the process, the only consistent thing about SB100 SPCNS registrations in California is that each one is different, depending on your luck of the draw not only at the DMV counter, but also at CHP and the BAR. Maybe it is better to just hire one of those services that do it all the time, since they probably know exactly who to go to?

[nkb]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

This would perhaps be a "solution" except it doesn't take into account another major goal in procuring a "Cobra Kit": Doing the assembly myself. I don't really need another "iconic" car nor even another one also with exhilarating performance. I have those.

I wanted the satisfaction of specifying and assembling the car myself (something I have the tools and expertise to accomplish). The "journey" is part of the motivation, not just the turnkey car.

I suppose I could buy a used California licensed car and then work on that. But, it is likely to have had most of the major aspects (e.g. drivetrain) already addressed relegating one to working on lesser items.

A further motivation, besides my own selfish satisfaction, is that my grandchildren are interested in cars and would enjoy wrenching on a kit with me. During Covid, I conducted Zoom classes with them on "Automotive Engineering and Physics" to an eager audience. Be nice to continue this with a more hands-on aspect.

These kids will be inheriting the car collection, so it would be good if they have some understanding what it is about. And they already have the car "bug".

Other options are to buy a "project" classic car and restore that. Having done that before it can easily extend into a many year project. And as noted, I ain't getting any younger. But, that may still make sense.

We'll see. I'll monitor the registration issue here and also consider other options. To be continued.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by nkb

This would perhaps be a "solution" except it doesn't take into account another major goal in procuring a "Cobra Kit": Doing the assembly myself. I don't really need another "iconic" car nor even another one also with exhilarating performance. I have those.

I wanted the satisfaction of specifying and assembling the car myself (something I have the tools and expertise to accomplish). The "journey" is part of the motivation, not just the turnkey car.

I suppose I could buy a used California licensed car and then work on that. But, it is likely to have had most of the major aspects (e.g. drivetrain) already addressed relegating one to working on lesser items.

A further motivation, besides my own selfish satisfaction, is that my grandchildren are interested in cars and would enjoy wrenching on a kit with me. During Covid, I conducted Zoom classes with them on "Automotive Engineering and Physics" to an eager audience. Be nice to continue this with a more hands-on aspect.

These kids will be inheriting the car collection, so it would be good if they have some understanding what it is about. And they already have the car "bug".

Other options are to buy a "project" classic car and restore that. Having done that before it can easily extend into a many year project. And as noted, I ain't getting any younger. But, that may still make sense.

We'll see. I'll monitor the registration issue here and also consider other options. To be continued.

IMHO, as long as you choose a "kit" that is not provided to you as a "roller" or "turn-key minus", then I think you will be fine. Building a vehicle from "scratch" is exactly what SPCNS was intended for. From what I had read here (and on other places), the BAR is only questioning replicas that are purchased as "rollers".

[patrickt]

Maybe just buy a little rental property right over the state line and keep your car there "six and a half months" out of the year. The more you mull it all over the more likely you are to box out before getting the darn thing.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

IMHO, as long as you choose a "kit" that is not provided to you as a "roller" or "turn-key minus", then I think you will be fine. Building a vehicle from "scratch" is exactly what SPCNS was intended for. From what I had read here (and on other places), the BAR is only questioning replicas that are purchased as "rollers".

So according to California regulations a smog exempt car classified a Specially Constructed Vehicle is:

"A Specially Constructed Vehicle is legally defined as “a vehicle which is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer.”
Specially Constructed Vehicles include:

Kit cars
Vehicles built from a combination of new and used parts
Dismantled vehicles that look completely different from the original"

So, what does Superformance say on their website:

"We offer a complete TKM (Turn Key Minus) component rolling chassis we are Not a Kit, this affords the customer amazing resale value, continuity of build and consistency in Build."

"Imagine a complete car – take out the engine and transmission (transaxle) and that is our replica. They are completely assembled and painted at our factory by experts that have produced over 3000 MKIII’s plus our other product lines."

SPF specifically declaring that they are not offering a kit is probably not helpful to the argument.

Of course, SPF's have been registered in California for a very long time. Twenty years after the passage of SB100 to now have objections being raised seems capricious and arbitrary. Moreover, the impact of a few 100 cars a year being exempted really seems to be a wrong priority.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by nkb

Moreover, the impact of a few 100 cars a year being exempted really seems to be a wrong priority.

But you don't understand. Bureaucrats are paid to first go for the low hanging fruit. Then once all the fruit has been picked, in order to preserve their jobs, invent ladders to reach the higher fruit.

[SBSerpent]

"A Specially Constructed Vehicle is legally defined as “a vehicle which is built for private use, not for resale,

If I had a dollar for everytime I've seen a Cobra come up for sale on BaT, Cobra Country, this forum, etc. with an SB100 sticker....

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by nkb

It appears that Superformance, Backdraft, and Caterham California registrations are all being held up. The BAR referee won't schedule an appointment to allow registration. Reason being given is that these cars are "turnkey". The Caterham community blames Superformance for having delivered turnkey cars. Caterham is accused of skirting the regulations by shipping their drivetrains separate from the rest of the car and then reassembling into a turnkey. The fact that Caterham delivers turnkey cars in the UK doesn't help either.

Please don't lump all "Caterham" sales/dealers into the same pile (and some SPF/BDR/Cat/ whatever dealers). Caterham is the manufacturer, not the retailer. We import the Caterham chassis and a separate, not affiliated company imports and sells the powertrains. Other than we know the other company, we have NO financial or other relationship with them.

Also understand that "Superformance" has NOT been the Caterham importer for about five years so that is a dealer/retailer issue, not the importer. Currently Caterham deals directly with the dealers, there is no "importer/distributor" involved.

In this industry there are several entities who are contravening the federal regulations regarding "arms length" by selling chassis and also selling the powertrain and even doing the installation. We know who they are but have not bus rolled them by turning them in as that will only cause closer scrutiny of all specialty car sellers.

Play by the rules and it works. Play fast and loose with the regulations and they bite you in the ass.