CSX3016 for sale through Exotic Classics, Syosset NY

[SunDude]

I just came across the following listing for CSX3016, an original 427 full competition Cobra, which is for sale through Exotic Classics in Syosset, New York. No affiliation with the seller; am just posting for interest's sake.

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1965 Shelby CSX3016 Factory 427 Competition Car | Call for Price
1965 Shelby CSX 3016 Factory 427 Competition Car -

In the mid 1960s Shelby CSX3016 was also known as the car that broke the track record at Watkins Glen and could be seen racing at some of the best race tracks in the northeast such as Bridgehampton and Limerock. It was also winner of the 1966 Sebring.

Caroll Shelby produced just over 300 big block 427 Shelby Cobras. 260 were made for street use, 27 were made for semi competition use referred to as SCs and just 21 full competition cars.

Carroll Shelby's cars were so fast that when a road test was performed by a major automotive magazine against what was considered one of the fastest cars of its day, the Aston Martin DB4, which could accelerate from 0 to 100 mph and back to 0 in 30 seconds. The Shelby by comparison could cover the same ground in an astonishing 13.2 seconds.

Shelby's Cobras went on to win the FIA World Manufacturer's Championship in 1963,1964 and 1965.

Shelby Cobras won the U.S. Manufacturer's Championship in 1963, 1964 and 1965. Also winning the FIA world manufacturer's championship in 1965.

[DMXF]

That car is a fake, the real 3016 was unearthed some years ago...

[LMH]

Not exactly a fake, more like rebuild with some original parts combined with parts of another car. Albiet not very many parts off the original!
Larry

[DMXF]

Not correct, there is nothing in or about that car traceable to the original

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by LMH

Not exactly a fake, more like rebuild with some original parts combined with parts of another car. Albiet not very many parts off the original!
Larry

I don't know that anyone has confirmed any part on the car came from the original CSX3016? I'd suggest anyone interested should do their due diligence.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

I don't know that anyone has confirmed any part on the car came from the original CSX3016? I'd suggest anyone interested should do their due diligence.

That's true, I may be giving it a nod towards "original"more than I should but on the other hand, it would be pretty hard to prove it's not from the original unless those parts suddenly appeared.
Larry

[DMXF]

Larry - People who have been involved in uncovering the original car remains and history know that the shock tower bracket on the car being sold in Syosset is not the original and there is no legitimate paperwork assigning ownership of the CSX3016 chassis number to that car. There are ownership trail affidavits of the real 3016 back to new and the person who had it in his back yard for decades has attested in one that he never sold anything off the car. Anyone who may be interested in the car being offered in Syosset should at least be warned, especially since the rightful owner of the real car is rebuilding/restoring it

[LMH]

Originally Posted by DMXF

Larry - People who have been involved in uncovering the original car remains and history know that the shock tower bracket on the car being sold in Syosset is not the original and there is no legitimate paperwork assigning ownership of the CSX3016 chassis number to that car. There are ownership trail affidavits of the real 3016 back to new and the person who had it in his back yard for decades has attested in one that he never sold anything off the car. Anyone who may be interested in the car being offered in Syosset should at least be warned, especially since the rightful owner of the real car is rebuilding/restoring it

Totally agree that any potential buyer needs to understand the situation with the car. What you are saying is not what is reflected in the registry though, so how would a potential buyer find out the truth about the car?
Larry

[LMH]

While I agree that the original shock tower, stamped "CSX3016" welded into another chassis isn't much of the original car, it is none the less original. Apparently the state of California also thinks so.
Larry

[WardL]

How did the original get buried?

[1ntCobra]

The registry entry seems very confusing.

Is this the street car with a CSX32xx or CSX33xx chassis into which someone welded a new shock tower with the CSX3016 serial number?

[ERA Chas]

^^^Especially with Ede heads and a Walmart air cleaner!

[LMH]

Wow! Think of the mess it will be when the lawyers and the government get involved. And of course, the money it will take to straighten it out. The car has/had a California title
which shows the chassis number as 3016. There won't be any previous title history from CA as they don't keep records for more than ten years. ( I've been down this road already trying to find my bosses old CSX)

So what car is this one for sale?
Larry

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by LMH

Wow! Think of the mess it will be when the lawyers and the government get involved. And of course, the money it will take to straighten it out. The car has/had a California title
which shows the chassis number as 3016. There won't be any previous title history from CA as they don't keep records for more than ten years. ( I've been down this road already trying to find my bosses old CSX)

So what car is this one for sale?
Larry

A number of falsely identified cars have had their identity cleared up without much complication or expense. It comes down to how reasonable the owner is in simply removing the incorrect number from the car. The DMV history is irrelevant, that is not what determines ownership.

Yes, having the identity surfaced of the car that was used to make this one may be the best way for the owner to minimize loss. While there is no doubt a new replacement car wearing that number, there would still probably be more residual value in the Syosset car if it were conveyed as consisting of the majority of the chassis number that it started life as.

[labcars]

This is kinda like "When did you stop beating your wife?" Any acknowledgement or denial implies that at one time you were beating your wife. But, hey, I'm just dumb enough to take a stab at it!

Lots of words being used here, like "fake" and "fraud", etc., etc. The internet is a wonderful place. Whatever view one holds can be instantly corroborated by any number of sites/postings espousing the same view, without regard to facts.

I own (with two friends) this car, and was very much aware of all the speculation surrounding it when we bought it, particularly as its last owner wouldn't let anyone near the car to examine it. To say that he's eclectic is being kind. That said, since its purchase the car has been examined by several marque experts who, for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality. Let's please remember that this was/is a race car. As a wise man once told me, you can own a perfect comp car without provenance, or a race car with stories, pick one. I've spoken to people who were at Watkins Glen when Bob Grossman put 3016 into a tree, as well as many others who point to specific elements of the car which mark it as "original". This car has been restored, although not to its Sebring livery, and been around for quite sometime.

Doubtless, DMXF knows more than me, as he seems well acquainted with the "original" owner who has somehow kept the remains of one of the twenty one comp cars buried in his back yard until recently to begin its restoration. This story is more believable because......?

I would invite anyone who knows the comp cars to inspect 3016 before forming such strident judgments. As in all things vehicular, the buyer should form their own view after the requisite diligence. No one is hiding the ball here, some preconceptions here notwithstanding.

Peace, out

[computerworks]

...for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality.

I reviewed that car at SAAC-30 and did many photos of it.

I don't recall experiencing "marvel." I would be glad to examine it in it's current condition.

[rodneym]

I never knew of the controversy surrounding Anthony's Cobra

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by labcars

That said, since its purchase the car has been examined by several marque experts who, for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality.

What are these "comp car only bits/features"?

I remember the owner of the Cobra restoration shop in Northern California that worked on my Kirkham pulled plenty of parts off the shelf to show me what original bits and pieces he could install on my car...for a price. And I took him up on some of it.

So, without knowing what these "bits/features" are, I'm not sure this means more than what's in the archives at SAAC HQ.

[1985 CCX]

What a show.....
Shame this car is what it is, still would fit nicely in my garage space.........

[1985 CCX]

"I am under the impression that the original CSX3016 is here in the northeast, albeit not whole, but in storage. That is not a secret to everyone, especially those who also know the story. How can the Mecum sell this car as "The Original CSX3016" if there is strong evidence of the contrary? Seems to me that there is a ton of credibility at issue for their company. I really feel for the buyer if the car sells for real Cobra cash. The car is awesome regardless but if the question of originality can't be substantiated the dupe cant continue, can it? Just not fair to the other owner and the potential buyer as its just not right. It's a shot across the bow for all original cars in my humble opinion"