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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2002, 06:42 PM
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Thumbs up Could Juan Fangio have been the greatest driver of all time?


Juan Fangio (right) and Sterling Moss

This is an article from a recent "Fabulous Fifties Association" newsletter that I just received, and I thought that some of you might enjoy reading this about a past World Champion, Juan Fangio, and what it takes to be one;

By Bill Pollack.
"I think it was late 1956 that the late Lance Reventlow asked me to join with him in driving his 2 litre Maserati at Sebring. We were to be the only private entry with the factory team of three or four cars. Arriving in Tampa, on a scorching afternoon, I watched the rain coming down, turning to steam after it hit the ground. We quickly headed out of town to Sebring, hopefully for cooler weather.

"Our car was housed with the factory machines in a large garage in a small town nearby. None of the Italian factory mechanics spoke English, so we made hand signals for some of the parts that we needed. After much dramatic gestering, the chief mechanic shrugged his shoulders and wheeled over an entire 2 litre engine mounted on a stand and pointed to it with a "take whatever you need" type of gesture. There was a definite heirarchy among the mechanics in those days. The chief was the only one who spoke to the drivers, then there was the sub-chiefs, the apprentices, then the parts washers.

"Practice day came and went. Fangio immediately set a track record with Jean Behra, the leading French driver who was to be Fangio's co-driver in this event. We were right near the front in also with the 2 litre Maser, and Richie Ginther just behind in a small Ferrari. The Reventlow car would top out at over 140mph on the straight, about 5 mph faster than the Ferrari's, but the Ferrari's had better brakes, so they were about even.

"Chevrolet decided to make a statement at this event. They had entered a one-off finned creation that was supposed to be the creation of Zora Argus Duntov and the best that GM had to offer. They also brought along a few old, tired Corvettes for their drivers to practice with. During the course of the day, several top Europeans like Sterling Moss and Roy Salvadori were invited to take a few laps in the Corvettes. Without fail, all came back in with a kind of sour look on their faces and polite smiles for the GM execs. None faired very well in the GM mules.

"Then came along Fangio. El Maestro climbed into one of the ratty practice Corvettes and blew out of the pits like a shot from He*l. When he came by on his first flying lap past the pit straight, the officials looked at their stopwatches, then at each other in disbelief. Two laps later, he brought the tired machine back into the pits. The Chevrolet people were all looking at their watches and shaking their heads. Fangio had just lapped the course in the old, smoking machine at a time which would have been good for second on the grid for race day, just a fraction of a second behind his own record setting qualifying time!

"Fangio and Behra went on to win the 12 hour race. I might add that Fangio's lap times were the same at night as they were during the bright of the day. This was something that no other driver would even dare to try. If a car was to leave the pavement and got into the soft sand, it was a disaster. I watched Fangio negotiate the first turn, at 100 mph, in the dark, and he used every inch of the road while others stayed close to the centerline in the dark. Until that moment, I always believed that I was one of the fastest guys on the planet. I can only say that Fangio must have been from another planet!"
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Last edited by Robert Evans; 03-29-2002 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 03-28-2002, 09:13 PM
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Schumacher is certainly nipping at his heels. Also, don't forget the short career of Ayrton Senna.
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Old 03-29-2002, 08:02 AM
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Certainly there are many very talented drivers racing today, but the biggest difference between drivers such as Moss and Fangio was that unlike their contemporary counterparts, they would race just about anything with at least four wheels, and sometimes with only two. And they did it mainly for the challenge of competition, not a huge paycheck like they do today.

Today, if a driver from IRL or CART hops into an IROC car and races at Daytona, it's a big deal. Or when Tony Stewart moved over to NASCAR, that was also a big deal. Drivers like Dan Gurney, A.J. Foyt, Phil Hill, Graham Hill, Fangio and Moss drove many different forms of auto racing, from Saturday night Sprint cars, to F-1, to Nascar, to Sports Cars, etc. Can you imagine someone like Montoya or Shumacher running the Daytona 500, or the World of Outlaws??

As good as today's drivers are, you really can't compare the two generations together. Take away the huge multi-million dollar Cart or F-1 contracts and see just how motivated those drivers become if they had to hold down a regular job and have to race just for the thrill of competition. Many of the old drivers are making more money now signing autographs than they ever did racing.
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:36 AM
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Thumbs up GREAT

BOB,

GREAT ARTICLE. GREAT PICTURE. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR REMINDING US.

AN OLD RACING BUDDY OF MINE - A LONG TIME AGO - SAID THAT THE BEST DRIVERS CAN RACE THEIR CAR AGAINST YOUR CAR - - BEAT YOU - - THEN TAKE YOUR CAR AND GIVE YOU THEIRS AND BEAT YOU AGAIN.

THERE WAS A REAL TOUCH OF CLASS IN THE DRIVERS OF THE 50'S & 60'S. SOME REALLY WEIRD - BUT LOVEABLE PERSONALITIES.

I LOVE THE OLD McCALL RACING HELMETS IN THE PICURE TOO. WHAT WAS LEFT OF MY OLD RELIC WENT UP IN SMOKE A FEW MONTHS AGO. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO FIND A REPLACEMENT FOR IT. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANYBODY SELLING "ANTIQUE" HELMETS???

BACK IN THOSE DAYS GUYS RACED IN TEE SHIRTS, KHAKI PANTS AND OLD BLACK "CHUCKIE" TENNIS SHOES.

I THINK I MIGHT CAST MY VOTE FOR THE OLD "IRON WRISTED" NUVOLARI AS A FAVORITE DRIVER THOUGH - ALBEIT FROM AN EARLIER ERA.

BOB, YOU MENTIONED THE "FABULOUS FIFTIES ASSOCIATION" MAGAZINE. IF THAT ARTICLE IS TYPICAL OF THEIR WORK, I'D REALLY LIKE TO GET A SUBSRIPTION TO IT. HOW MIGHT I DO THAT??

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:41 PM
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Besides the machines, think of the difference in tire technology today v. 40 years ago. It is a wonder that these guys lived as long as they did back then.
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:09 PM
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What about Mario? Won Indy, Daytona 500, F1 champ ,Cart champ, cut his teeth in sprint cars before wings. Only place he ain't won is Le Mans.
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Old 03-29-2002, 04:44 PM
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Mr. B,
I consider him from the same mold and group as the drivers listed before. He was born/raised/bred to race anything he could. Not until late in his career did he select to run primarily CART. Don't forget that Mario won the 12 hour Sebring race in April '67 with Bruce McLaren in a Mk IV, so add Sports Cars to that list too.
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:20 PM
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Bob,
That was a terrific post. I have an interesting anecdote for you. When I lived in Fort Lauderdale as a teen-ager, I did so aboard a gorgeous 1929 65' house-boat (like a Trumpy---a yacht with a stack, tenders, etc., not a "trailer on a raft". Anyway, my classmates and I had begged our Dads to take us to the 1956 Sebring. We didn't get to go, but my friend's Dad covered this by promising to take us to HAVANA the following winter (1957---I think). Again---no go for me, but several neighbors with fast yachts DID go to Cuba. During this time, the Havana race was nsomething like a "formula libre" event (I think) but Fangio was going to drive a Mercedes. His countryman and sometime rival, Froilen (?) Gonsalves was also due to drive. All I know is the people came back all bummed out. Fangio had BEEN KIDNAPPED by anti-Battista rebels led by you-know-who. This is a true story, but I have now way of corroborating it, other than appealing to you and the other more knowledgeable types aboard this peerless site. Keep sending! PS the "insurrectos" later released Fangio, but too late for the race.
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Old 04-01-2002, 07:01 AM
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The Fangio kidnapping is well-documented. Gentleman that he was, Fangio befriended his kidnappers and actually corresponded with some of them over the years. He reported that they treated him exceptionally well and made it clear they had no intention of harming him but were trying to draw attention to their cause. Imagine the uproar today if someone like Michael Schumacher were kidnapped!

The English magazine Motorsport did a multi-part article a year or two ago on the 100 greatest drivers of all time. They had a large panel of contributors that included drivers, journalists, and others intimately involved in the racing world who got together and compliled the list. It was pretty fascinating reading; I'll have to see if I can dig up the issues. I recall that the top ten included Schumacher, Senna, Moss, Jimmy Clark, Ascari, Fangio, Gilles Villeneuve, etc. The Numero Uno in their estimation was Nuvolari. They sure generated a furor over some of their picks; there were readers writing in who were livid over the placement of some of the drivers on the list. Kind of like arguing about the greatest car ever built, or the best sports team ever; it's tough to compare people, cars, or events from different generations and levels of technology--

Bob
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Old 04-01-2002, 07:23 AM
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Good stuff Bob

What made him a hero to me was his Argentinian road racing. He and the others who drove in those man-killers over the Pampas and into the Andes were REAL racers--a breed apart. I always felt that Parnelli Jones was trying to follow in his footsteps when he started doing the Baja 1000/500 in Big Oly. Fangio's old road race Chevy was bought by Davis (Automobile magazine) and lovingly restored--many good articles about those road races by Davis during the rebuild. Obviously, his talents made him great in Europe--but only after he was a national hero to his country.
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Old 04-01-2002, 02:28 PM
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As Snakeeyes intimated, there was a real 'soul' to a man like Fangio vis a vis other racers past and present. A great quote from Karl Ludvigsen's book, "Corvette: America's Star Spangled Sports Car" discusses the difference between Moss and Fangio at Sebring in '57 driving the Corvette SS.

This really speaks volumes about this great driver. Ludvigsen states:

"Fangio spoke very highly indeed of the car's roadholding and steering response, likening it to the Maseratis in the way it could be throttle-steered through and out of corners. Rather being critical, though, Fangio was famous for his utter indifference to whatever happened to be under him. He just made it go as fast as he had to. Moss however was known for saying just what he thought, and after the SS ride he said he was pleasantly surprised. After being flagged in once for a tire check he got his time down to 3:28, feeling that if needed he could cut two or three seconds off that. Stirling was initially repelled by the rough and dirty conditions of the much flogged "bucket of bolts", about which Duntov was touchingly embarrassed.........."while Fangio had taken it with a smile of sympathy. He had, afterall, driven far less professional machinery in his early days in Argentina."
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Old 04-11-2002, 03:06 PM
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Talking Back When Tires Were Skinny and Drivers Were Fat!

I"m simply amazed that Fangio just lived to tell about his five world championships! It would be interesting to ciompare the percentage of race drivers that were killed in Fangio's era with today's F1.

My guess is that Micheal, Ralf, Juan Pablo, and the like would collectively crap their pants at the idea of racing back then.

Stan
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Old 04-11-2002, 05:19 PM
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Default wasn't it aj foyt

who won at le mans, the daytona 500 and the indy 500 ALL IN THE SAME YEAR??? he gets my vote!
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Old 04-12-2002, 07:11 AM
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Me thinks it was probably AJ
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