Just Had Oil Analyzed

[Bob In Ct]

Last fall I poured in 9 quarts of Redline 5w-30 street oil. At the same time I sent a sample of the virgin oil to Blackstone for analysis. A few weeks ago I again changed my oil and I sent a sample of the used oil (1,500 miles) to Blackstone for analysis. I use no additives in my fuel or oil, engine has about 14,500 easy miles on it.

I also included a Mobil1 test (used oil) from last year.

Here are the numbers - before/after/used Mobil1

zinc 1199/1283/790
phosphorus 1079/1060/656
molybdenum 705/689/81
lead 0/37/17

Any thoughts?

Bob

www.blackstone-labs.com

[mickmate]

Hey Bob, do you use an additive in your fuel? Curious about the lead huh.

[patrickt]

Lead is usually from bearings. Here's one of my reports for a comparison.

[bobcowan]

Clearly, the Redline is superior to Mobile 1. No surprise there. Also, it looks like your Relidne ol ihad plenty of life left in it. COuld have stayed in there for another year, maybe. Depending on what the other numbers looked like.

I did a UOA on my Harley, using M1. Very disappointing. After 3,500 miles, it was all used up. Next time I'll be using Royal Purple.

[lovehamr]

OK Bob, I'm lost. How do you figure what is "used up" with out a starting point? I'd just like to understand what I'm looking at.

Steve

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

Here are the numbers - before/after/used Mobil1

zinc 1199/1283/790

Bob

www.blackstone-labs.com

Looks like the zinc level went up during usage. Wonder how that happened?

Jack

[kitcarbp]

Bob,

Its been years since I did this on a test fleet but the results you are showing, assuming these are ppm. It would have been handy to see the Mobil 1 virgin data also.

zinc 1199/1283/790
phosphorus 1079/1060/656
molybdenum 705/689/81
lead 0/37/17

The above tell me the following: You still had plenty of the additives ZINC and PHOSPHORUS which are EP additives (needed for our flat tappet motors). These deplete over time (mileage). On a flat tappet motor we need ppm's on virgin oil in the 1000-1500 range to protect the lifter face and cam lobes. The Lead is typically from shell bearing wear and indicates a higher rate of wear compared to the Mobil 1 oil, but its still low and I would not worry. The Moly additive is still well represented as well , but I dont remember what the lower limit concentration should be, in any case the Moly level shows almost virgin oil.

FYI- Many of these oil analysis companies will give you a detailed explanation of what these numbers mean to someone who is not an expert. I would go to their websites or call them for reference. The testing companies that test oils for the large transportation companies truck fleets/municipal bus fleets are the folks to work with; they dream this stuff 24/7!

What you didn't tell us is how many miles was on the Mobil 1 oil (i.e. was it also 1,500 miles on that oil)

[Bob In Ct]

The Mobil1 had about the same mileage. I'm assuming the higher value on the later test was due to the margin of error in the test.

Blackstone felt the lead was from bearing wear. Ford Motorsports told me they do not use lead in their bearings. They also told me the lead was probably in my gas. So whom can you believe?

Bob

[kitcarbp]

Bob, I have not physically analyzed a bearing shell's metalurgy but last I understood, they still contain lead, Im not 100% sure. If you are using pump gas, there is no lead there. If you use another racing fuel I guess its possible. I dont know what your engine oiling system set-up is (dry/wet sump) but a component in the system could have traces of lead (oil tanks,fittings/valves/pumps etc) but you need "friction" to remove the lead metal from a surface, it doesn't just float off the surface into the oil. The only way to know for sure is if you know exactly what brand of cam, con rod, and main bearing shells Ford used in your build if this is a crate engine. Perhaps they can share who their bearing supplier is/was, you really want to speak directy to the bearing guys not a FOMOCO tech line guy, IMHO.

UPADTE: I now am 100% sure, they still use lead.

Clevite section cut of a modern performance bearing shell is found in this link to the MAHLE catalog for Clevite bearings. take a look. its all you wanted to learn about bearings but were afraid to ask. They still contain lead. Its the third layer on the TRI-ARMOR shell.

http://www.mahleclevite.com/pubs_detail.asp?c=1&id=108

[trularin]

I try to add lead when I can to the gas.

The test in inconclusive. There is no point of reference.

If the oils were each tested before they were put in the engine, you would then have a before and after comparison.

For all we know the Mobil 1 was 1200 zinc and it was all used up.

Just another view.

[Bob In Ct]

The Mobil1 numbers are accurate, I contacted them. They also told me not to use their 5W-30 or 10W-30 in a flat tappet engine because of the reduced ZDDP level. If the bottle has a "Starburst" symbol it has the lower ZDDP amounts (600 to 800 PPM).

The only reason I pay $11 per quart for the Redline 5W-30 is for the higher ZDDP.

Bob

[kitcarbp]

Hi, Bob ,yes the Mobil 1 levels they told you sound correct, I downloaded all the tech data sheets a while back. The only Mobil 1 product I recall having enough zinc/phos (ZDDP) for use in flat tappet motors is their 15W-50 weight racing oil (1300/1400 ppm). I decided to use a shell rotella 15W-40 non-syn blend oil with 1200+ ppm concentrations for my engine break-in along with the Comp Cams break-in lube. I 'll only use the high zinc/phos oils from here on out. Man I "lived" the flat tappet failure nightmare of the mid 90's on the OEM side, and now I read all the specs on the oils. Dont ask me how I know. Been there done that got the t-shirt and left.