string alignment vs. hunter machine alignment

vector1 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 06:12 PM

i had been thinking of getting an alignment machine if i could find one cheap enough. one came up on craigslist at the salvage yard for $500 large so i thought i would check it out. it had been sitting for a few years and was pretty dirty and the guy wouldn't guarantee it, so i had to decide if i was going to gamble the 500 and maybe have to invest more or get a really sweet deal. i gambled.

it is a hunter d111 with the laser heads. had to have the service rep come out and play with it but finally got it working without having to replace anything, just labor, and the guy likes to race

the machine is real sensitive. we could bump one post and effect the head on the diagonal wheel, anything running on the same breaker would effect the readings.

anyway, for the alignment, i had done an alignment with a smart gauge and string for the toe. for the toe i had ran a string down the middle of the chassis using a plumb bob and tried to center everything toe wise then did the final fine tuning measuring outside wheel to outside wheel with a straightedge across the tires held on with bungee cords and a plumb bob off these to a tape stretched across the lift.

the camber using the smart gauge was the same as the hunter, i didn't check the caster. the toe on the rear was the same, i'm not sure the difference on the front. the thrust line was offset as i knew using the string but i couldn't do anything about that, with the hunter i changed that and got the wheels closer or pretty exact on the thrust line front and rear.

with the string alignment the car drove fine, with the hunter alignment it is dead in the water smooth. i set the front toe to 0, and the rear was close to 0 except the half turn of the heim caused the rear to toe out .010, it was either that or toe in .090, another 1/2 turn would be .190 toe in, so i think it was pretty consistent.

pretty cool machine anyway. i think for camber and caster the smart gauge works fine, but getting the toe set which is critical for a suspension with heim joints is pretty hard to do with the string. just a quarter turn on the front ball joints was worth .010", and tightening the lock nuts would move the toe .010".

ZOERA-SC7XX · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 06:34 PM

Toe setting would be the same, just may read different with string opposed to the front end machine. It depends on the machine calibration. Nice that you were able to find the machine, but when you don't have one, the string method works just fine. My settings were confirmed when the DMV inspection station findings were the same.

lovehamr · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 07:46 PM

I think you got a smokin' deal man!!

http://www.allstates.com/alignment.html

vector1 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 05:25 AM

so far so good.

it came with an extra set of cables that we were changing around and i asked him how much new cables would be, he said $92, not knowing for 2 or 4 i asked if it was a whole set, he said no, 1.

there is a transducer in each head which looks like a small lightbulb with three prongs sticking up with mercury in the base, he said these were original and were the better ones but might need replacing, so i asked him how much. he said one thirtyfive. now, i had been up about 36 hrs by this time, so my brain was making slow calculations, and $1.35 didn't sound right, and $13.50 wasn't close to what he said, then $135 came to mind

so i asked, and he said yup, $135, that's each.

so i related to him the story of what a set of a arms for the jbl would cost, yup, he got the same look on his face.

i said see that, that's how i felt.

Bob In Ct · #5 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Hey Vector1:
One of the things I'm concerned with in regard to aligning my SPF is the narrow front track and the wider rear track. Do you somehow tell the maching that the tires in the back are on bigger wheels and have a wider track? I'm sure the machine's brain does not have 2000 Superformance in its memory.

Bob

vector1 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

Hey Vector1:
One of the things I'm concerned with in regard to aligning my SPF is the narrow front track and the wider rear track. Do you somehow tell the maching that the tires in the back are on bigger wheels and have a wider track? I'm sure the machine's brain does not have 2000 Superformance in its memory.

Bob

machine doesn't care on the rim width, i had put longer clamps on the front tires because i had the same thoughts, but the rep told me they need to be the same length, although i don't think the machine knew the difference. with my machine you can put any spec in and save it under whatever you want to call it with whatever tolerance, takes about 5 min. i used +/-.010" on the tolerance for the bar graph, otherwise it gets pretty touchy. i can also put the cables on the heads in any order and the computer knows which head is which. it will also tell you the amount of setback, which is whether the wheels are inline and perpendicular to the centerline.

Bob In Ct · #7 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 03:13 PM

It seems to me that the lasers on the rear need to know they are farther apart than those on the front, otherwise the back wheels will be toed-in.

What if the rear track was 2 feet wider and the lasers didn't know it, wouldn't that cause the machine to toe-in the back thinking the wheels were one behind the other? If you were using strings you would certainly adjust for the wider rear track.

Bob

jdean · #8 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 04:12 PM

Vector, if you align front and back on just a few cars you paid for your investment. Good deal!

vector1 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-07-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdean

Vector, if you align front and back on just a few cars you paid for your investment. Good deal!

that's what i thought. plus if anything is replaced, or ride height changed, or just want to check something to see if it has moved it's handy to have.

bob

i'm not sure how the lasers do it all, but they are "compensated" on the rims before the alignment. if they are unable to compensate then they are out of range and unable to communicate, then they would be too far offset i guess. during the caster adjustment the front wheels are turned 20 deg. either side of straight ahead and the machine knows how to do this so i'm thinking a bit of offset would be tolerated. if they are rotated during the alignment they will go out of range and have to be reset or leveled. the lasers on this setup go completely around the car except for the rear.

vector1 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-13-2010, 02:31 PM

hooked the machine up today cause i wanted to check caster which i hadn't done previously and see how everything else was ridin.

with the smart gauge the caster had came up a little over 3 from what i could tell. when the machine was hooked up it showed 2.7 & 3 so i readjusted using the new lower a arms with the caster adjusters and ended up with 3.1 both sides, 3 to 4 being specified.

pretty slick machine.