460 installation questions

[bsklein]

I'm new to the forum, beginning research on a Cobra build. I'd like to go with a big block, daily driver, occasional track/drag use. I'm thinking about a 460, maybe stroked a bit. My idea was to use a big displacement but otherwise mild motor for reliability. The 427/428 FE motors are also a bit pricey for me. I need something that can run on the nasty 91 octane we now have in CA.

What are the issues with the 460 as far as fitment goes (hood clearance, oil pan to road clearance, ability to get at spark plugs)?

Which kit brands are best set up for the 460 with minimum modifications?

How hard is it to get headers and side pipes to fit?

Finally, what is the weight difference between a 460 with aluminum heads and a 427 FE?

Thanks so much in advance, great forum.

Regards,
Barry

[Back in Black]

Hello Barry,
And welcome to Club Cobra...I have only been here a month or so, and have learned more than I knew in total before about cobras and related issues. This is THE place to be, and most of the members are very helpful and truly interested in this subject. Many are also goofballs, but we still let them visit

The engine fitting issue is of course related to which manufacture cobra you choose. My cobra is a West Coast, larger than the original, with many modern safety and chassis features. The original design/dimensioned cars are a wee bit tighter in certain fitting areas. But the big block Fords certainly will fit.

Generally, you will have to do hood mods, larger scoop, etc... if you go with anything larger than the oval cobra air filter housing, with the stock 1 and 13/16 height filter element. I am having a stock height (1 and 13/16 inches) K & N element installed in mine, as the stock paper element is too restrictive. Some have told me that 40 horsepower may be at stake! Ask those with your particular cobra make, what the max air filter housing is for your motor size. The intake manifold and single/dual carbs may relate also.

Headers/pipes...there are several companies out there that make nice aftermarket pipes for every common cobra make/application. Options include: Painted pipes, ceramic coated pipes, chromed pipes, and stainless steel high polished pipes (SS was my choice) I chose the SS because it can be cleaned up easily if it discolors, it will not easily rust (Yes, SS CAN rust, just not easily, or much) My builder is also using "header wrap" which is like a bandage for the headers, to keep engine compartment heat down, and channel it out the pipes instead !

I am not an engine expert, but the main difference between the two motors is that the 427 side oiler motor is more original, but usually in order to find one, you have to have it (re) built by an engine shop. There are several mentioned all over this site, such as *Southern*. Talking big bucks, but they are nice.

The 460/514 motors are Ford factory crate motors, meaning they are remanufactured (I am guessing from motors returned due to warranty exchange/repair?) and they are the best "bang for your buck" in the engine dept. My 514 comes with the CobraJet aluminum heads, same rough dimensions as the stock heads, OUTSIDE, but inside, big (good) combustion chamber changes, stainless valves, Eagle connecting rods, ARP bolts, lots of goodies.the heads are Lighter too. From what I can discern, heads are the most important upgrade in the HP dept. The big mild motors like the 514 run on pump premium...low compression (9.5 to 1) big lungs, makes good reliable power.
My compassion goes out to you in California...my wife and I escaped there 10 years ago. Gas is the least of your problems there, depending on what part of the state you live in.

So, ..I went with the crate 514...600 horsepower (about $7200.00) without the Holley fuel injection ($2850.00) and MSD ignition/coil I am having installed at the West Coast factory. It seemed the easy way to go, but if I ever build a 351 to 400 small block 289 FIA style car, it would likely be a custom motor, maybe with dual Paxton style superchargers. So then it would get more expensive by far.

I hear that ability to get at spark plugs varies quite a bit motor to motor, and cobra make to make. They are NOT *all the same*

You can see West Coast cobras at www.cobrakit.com

I bet others have lots of tech data to share, that I do not

[webebob]

The 460 is a "bolt-in" for the Superformance (SPF) cars. No mods. I have the 486hp 460 crate engine in a SPF. It was an easy install. Very streetable engine. My wife drives it.
Good luck with your search
Bob

[bran3b]

I have a 460 in a Midstates, and have not had to make any modifications to make it work. I think that most manufacturers can fit a big block, or help you to make it work. I am going to try to post a picture that might help to let you see the accessability for things like spark plugs. I am still working out some bugs with the engine, but it fits well.

[bsklein]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. I'm also on the Miata Power mailing list. My last project was a supercharged, lowered Miata. I met a lot of great people on that forum also. I was going to do a 5.0 liter V8 Miata next, but then I discovered the Cobra.

California has it's problems but a couple of good things, 1) you usually are OK with the top down and better yet, 2) they just passed a law to allow Cobras to be registered as 1965 model year, hence NO SMOG CHECK. So I need a Cobra.

The 514 sounds like a very nice number to me, as long as I'm taking the big block weight penalty. The crate motor should be fine for my purposes. Which vender did you get it from?

The West Coast Cobra frame looks absolutely bulletproof. Superformance would be wonderful, but may be a bit over my budget. I've heard great things about Midstates. Such a hard decsion.

Regards,

[Back in Black]

We just got back from a concert in Seattle, the Chieftains. It is midnight here

I bought mine from a Ford dealership in MI, recommended by my manufacturer. I suspect the shipping would eat up your savings, in getting it shipped to you in CA.

Try your local dealers there in CA, or try saving the sales tax if you can by picking it up in person in a neighboring state like Oregon (no sales tax) ...if the trip is worth it to you. Any Ford dealer can sell you this motor...make sure it's the new version with the Eagle rods and ARP connecting rod bolts. The retail is something like $7600.00 ?? You may be able to have it shipped from an on line or catalog retailer in Arizona or such? Might save some money.

If you need to buy it from my supplier, e-mail me. My e-mail is in my profile.

BiB

The no smog check sounds good, but I can scarce believe it. You had better verify that before you go too far, and get into a build while counting on that.
I just heard the REALLY liberal governor there refused to sign a kit car bill, and I well know the insanity of CA government, as I was a 2nd amendment activist in Sacramento for years.

[bsklein]

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize these came straight from Ford.

The California bill is called SB100 I believe. The governor did sign it recently. It was written by a state assemblyman who drives a Cobra. It allows 500 kit cars per year to be registered as the year they replicate, so the Cobra 427s go as 1965 models. I think all you need is a PCV valve. Several guys in the local Cobra club have already taken advantage of this.

Let me know what it's like driving the 514 when you get it. It will be a while until I order one. I promised my wife I'd sell my Harley first .

Regards,

[Dior55]

The post above speaks of crate engines from Ford being "remanufactured" or "returned". This is not true. The "385" block is still manufactured by Ford, used in trucks and marine applications I believe, so FMS just grabs a bunch of NEW blocks, goes to its parts bins and cleans house. I have the 460/535 hp crate in my FFR, and it was a NEW engine when I received it. The 514 was available as well, but I stayed away. I couldn't see the additional $1000 for 60 or so more horses. I can't use the 535 I have now!

I bought my crate engine right from Summit Racing, I believe they have the best prices. I paid about $5200 for mine in 1999, plus about $300 for shipping from Texas to NY. Make sure, if you order one to be delivered to your house, that the delivery truck puts the crate on a tailgate truck, otherwise you will not be able to get the engine off the truck!!

FFR's can take the 460, they supply you with the correct headers and side pipes, as well as a wiring harness and motor mounts for the "BB option". No special mods are required to build the BB, but it is more work and you will be "off the manual" somewhat when it comes to the drivetrain.

[Mohuska]

To BSKlein....

I also have a West Coast Cobra and the 460 makes a nice fit...I have a Holley 950 with Turkey Pan and the set up fits nicely under the hood...Even the larger sprint car headers fit well....The higher torque of the 460 plus that deep growl you will get makes it an AWESOME heart for your beast to be...

[Back in Black]

The on line literature I have seen, specifies that the 514 block is *seasoned* I thought this meant it had been run and then broken down for rebuild? Just an assumption.

I only noticed your post just now. Please give me the straight skinny if you have it. Thanks !

Mohuska, you are making my wait harder with all that cool BB talk...LOL

[Rick 427 Cobra]

I seem to remember this question coming up before but couldn't find it. Has anyone had experiance with putting a 460 into a Contemporary. Concerned about width and height .