351W question for engine guys

Tommy · #1 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 03:00 PM

I was running my car in an autocross today when the engine abruptly quit running. There were no unusual engine noises, but it would not restart. When I got it home, I discovered that the distributor shaft does not turn when the starter is spinning the engine. I've never worked on a Ford engine before, so I need advice on how to methodically determine the root cause of the problem (e.g., drive gear, cam, timing chain, etc.). What do you guys suggest?

jwinkler · #2 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 03:10 PM

I would wait for the real experts to chime in, but if the distributor shaft isn't turning, then either the gear is gone (or spins on the dist shaft?) or the oil pump has seized. Either should be very easy to check by pulling the distributor. I know on my car (after it's been sitting for a while and isn't ready to fire up

) that when I'm turning it over with the starter, I'll get oil pressure - when you're turning the motor over, are you getting oil pressure? That would point to the oil pump.

Best of luck, and I hope it's something simple. I had similar symptoms a couple of weeks ago, and it turned out to be a bad connection in the coil wire at the coil.

JLW

Slide · #3 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 03:11 PM

Hi Tommy, do the simple thing first and pull the distributor and look at the gear. My guess is that the oil pump seized and you sheared the the dist. gear roll pin. Put socket on the oil pump drive shaft and see if it turns with finger pressure. Good luck.

Tommy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 03:56 PM

Following Clyde's advice, I pulled the distributor and found all the teeth on one side of the drive gear missing. Based on a search of earlier posts on this subject, and the fact that I bought this car and don't know what is in the engine, it seems the corrective actions are:
1. Clean everything that receives oil to make sure no metal pieces will cause problems in the future.
2. Determine what type of cam I have and replace the drive gear with one of the correct metal (i.e., bronze, iron or steel).
3. Remove the cam and burnish the gear teeth.
4. Check that the oil pump is not binding.
5. Reassemble everthing.

Did I miss anything important?

kountzecobra · #5 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 07:46 PM

That pretty well covers it.

Slide · #6 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 08:42 PM

Have a machinist look real close at the cam gear, it is likely damaged. If it is a flat tappet hyd. new cam and lifters are cheap insurance. My bearings also were hurt so it was back to a bare block and complete rebuild. Sorry.

Rick Parker · #7 (**permalink**) 06-02-2002, 09:10 PM

Do you have a baffled oil pan with kickouts on either side? If you do any auto crossing it is manditory to control the oil in the pan. G forces are higher in most auto crosses than on alot of road racing courses. You will probably find the pump siezed and the roll pin sheared. You must have a road race type oil pan to control the oil in the side to side action encountered in auto crossing. This situation was most likely caused by oil starvation, there is alot going on while on an auto cross course making it difficult to monitor the gauges accurately and react quickly.

Sorry.........Rick

PS......Do not consider using the existing pump. It bound up due to lack of oil/lubrication or metal inside. It WILL be damaged beyond repair. Pumps are cheap, just replace it and the drive shaft and use the correct gear on the distributor shaft itself. Also a little trick I have used is to increase the diameter of the roll pin from 1/8th to 3/16th's. Use the type of pin that is rolled like a pinwheel (cross section)rather than the hardened type that are commonly called "split pins". the increased diameter of the pin adds a liittle extra shear resistance. Use a sharp drill bit when resizing the hole in the distributor gear and shaft.

Mr.Fixit · #8 (**permalink**) 06-04-2002, 01:31 PM

Pretty sure you chewed up the distributor gear. If it was a cast iron gear and a roller cam this will happen again. Since the dist is turned by the cam, the motor would have made good noise as the valves smashed into the pistons if it were anything upstream of the dist gear..

pbrown · #9 (**permalink**) 06-04-2002, 06:24 PM

Rick is right. Get a good road race pan like the Canton 15-680. This is a high capacity pan with a low profile so it won't hurt the ground clearance. It has internal baffles and trap doors to keep oil around the pickup. You might also look into a Canton Accusump oil accumulator.

Your on the right track for getting it back in order. Be sure to remove the pump cover and check for metal bits inside.

Tommy · #10 (**permalink**) 06-04-2002, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the great advice guys. I'll keep you posted as I size up the damage.

acaskie · #11 (**permalink**) 06-06-2002, 04:46 AM

You might also want to consider switching from a cast to a steel gear. For some reason, even with a cast gear on the cam, it can eat up a cast distributor gear. I had one buddy who chewed up several that way before moving to steel. No problems since.

pbrown · #12 (**permalink**) 06-06-2002, 06:57 AM

I believe the rule of thumb is; cast cam - steel dist gear OR steel cam - cast dist gear. Another option is to use a bronze gear on the dist with either cam type. Typicaly a flat tappet cam will be cast and the rollers will be steel. Avoid using high volume/pressure oil pumps with bronze gears as they put more load on the gear and cause faster ware.