What does this sound like to you?

[excelguru]

Symptoms

I coast to a stop at a red light in 2nd gear with the clutch pedal fully depressed. While stopped at the red, I pop it into neutral with the intention of proceeding to 1st gear. It then becomes impossible to put it into 1st. Okay... so I try 2nd. Nope. Try 3rd? Nope. Panic sets in. Try 1st again. Hell, let's try reverse... (grinding sound)... nope. Bear in mind that the clutch pedal is fully engaged this whole time (and reverse still grinds!??). After several seconds of green light staring me in the face and eye daggers hitting me in the back of the head, I finally manage to grab 2nd. (whew!)

While traveling (especially at slower speeds) shifting can become impossible. It gets into neutral and just stays there, refusing to pop into any gear.

Under light acceleration (when the pipes aren't kicking out 97 decibels), I can just barely hear a slight rattling sound from... the clutch area???

Once, when coasting to a stop with the clutch depressed and 2nd gear engaged, the car sputtered and struggled, as if the clutch were still engaged.

Engine RPM's continue to match car speed, so I don't believe the clutch is slipping (quite the opposite seems to be happening).

Diagnosis

Does it sound like a simple adjustment to the clutch slave cylinder is required? Or is this a more serious issue? This happened last Wednesday, and I haven't had time to touch the car since (or I would've tried the slave adjustment by now). Just thought I would run it by you guys before I started crawling under the car (when I find time later this decade).

[valpodoc]

Synchro's worn?? If you blip the throttle can you get it in?
Roland

[excelguru]

Blipping the throttle didn't seem to make any difference. Sheer brute force with the stick (yikes!) was eventually necessary to grab the gear.

I forgot to mention that the only gear that produced the grinding noise was reverse.

[Fitz]

This happened to me once too. Sounds similar but mine was more serious. I had to be towed because my clutch was gone. I had to start my car in gear and that was fun!

[MidOHasp]

Have you tried float-shifting it? (i.e. - without touching the clutch, gently pull out of gear as you roll off the throttle and gently coax into the next higher gear as your revs fall. As the revs hit the synchro point, it should nicely (and without any drama) slide into gear...)

If that works, sounds like your tranny (synchros) is probably doing alright, and I'd focus on the clutch.

Hydraulic clutch? may need bled... Throwout bearing may need re-adjustment...

Just my $.02

[GeorgiaSnake]

You have mail.

Randy

[Bruce Edwards]

Sounds like the clutch is not letting go. Try to adjust the free play. You may have to much.
Will it go in to gear ok if you shut the car off? Pull up to a stop and see if it will shift . If it does not shut the engine off and try again. If it slips in and you can start the car with out the brake on does it try to move forward? If so the clutch is to tight.

[Hal Copple]

if it is an abrupt change, i would hazard a guess that one of the springs in your clutch disk has failed, and now prevents the clutch from fully disengaging

You might try to bleed your system, and put in a new slave cylinder, first, though. I had a slave cylinder go out at VIR, my car would not fully disengage. Let us know what happened, and good luck.

[Michael C Henry]

Mine had a Tilton7/8" master cyl.I had free travel or clutch release not both after the throw out bearing took out the clutch forks I moved up to a 15/16" tilton master cyl.I gave up some leverage but got enough travel to have free travel at top and full release.

[Rick Parker]

Keith:


Have someone depress the clutch and if you are using a slave cylinder outside of the bellhousing, visually check the amount of movement obtained by the release lever, it should be about 1.25-1.75 inches. If you do not get this much movement then the clutch pressure plate cannot release the disc. Does the clutch pedal have the same "Effort" as it did previously? The normal effort felt is the pressure exerted by the springs in the pressure plate being overcome by the leverage of the throw out bearing pressing on the fingers of the pressure plate. If you have limited or no movement it is then a hydraulic issue. If the slave is not leaking head for the master cylinder, be sure there is fluid in the resevoir and try bleeding. Then suspect the master cylinder if no progress is made. If you have an hydraulic throw out bearing it may have popped a seal, but that would be apperent from fluid leakage.

Lastly, it is possible with a remote slave to exert to much travel and pop the rubber cup out of the slave cylinder bore. This is usually caused by improper sizing ratios of the slave and master, thereby transfering too much fluid to the slave.

Rick


PS: In my daily driver, Ford SVT Contour I sometimes pull up to a stop or from neutral cannot get it in any gear, if I shut the engine off it slips right in. I think in my case that the disc is sticking to the flywheel as I have investigated most eveything else.

[CJ428CJ]

Sounds to me like the clutch is clearly not disengaging completely. Assuming you have a hydraulic clutch that could be caused by a low fluid levels, air in the lines, bad clutch slave cylinder or bad clutch master cylinder.

Chris

[excelguru]

Wow! What a resource!

Randy - Got your email. Thanks. I will try that.

Looks like I left some holes in my details... I have the typical master cylinder/slave cylinder setup where the slave pushes a rod against the throw-out fork. It's all mechanical after that.

From what I'm reading here, I'll try the simplest items first:

1. Make sure the rubber cup is still firmly planted in the slave.
2. Bleed the master/slave just to make sure.
3. Have someone depress the clutch and check/adjust fork travel by adjusting the pushrod at the slave.

After that, things start getting expensive...

Thanks for the quick to-do list, guys. Man, I love this site.

[Rick Parker]

Send CASH!

[valpodoc]

Hey let us know the outcome....
Roland

[Kasman]

I concur with Randy.....try all of the above before tearing into the clutch. I too have the same set-up (I assume taht you do) from Southern Automotive, clutch, bellhousing, throw-out bearing, fork, and slave cylinder supplied from Southern Automotive mated to the master cylinder as supplied on the Superformance...When I test drove the completed car at the installer I had the same problem but not as sevier. The installer bled the system and that problem went away (so far).

The problem with my set-up is that the clutch pedal action feels mushy, hard to feel when the clutch engages. not as much pedal travel to go from the floor to fully engaged. My set-up in Supeformance 1158, with a stroked small block felt as good as any mechanical linkage, crisp and positive. I have not consulted Mr. Parham for his recommendations and troubleshooting techniques.

I would look into the slave cylinder first...I assume with the light car and the shift point around six grand the clutch should last forever. Even with drag radials the clutch should not be the weakest link.

Hope you resolve quickly and inexpensively and back to having fun........

Keep us posted

Kas

[TerribleTed13]

Agreed, most likely clutch related. A small possibility the pilot bearing failed, keeping the transmission imputshaft turning.
Keep us posted.

[excelguru]

UPDATE

Special thanks to the neighbor's kid, Jared (who's in the JROTC and constantly refers to me as Sir - a refreshing change to see in a teenager... but I digress). He pushed the clutch while I crawled underneath and measured the slave pushrod's stroke. Stroke = 9/16" Hmm...

That's right. Barely more than half an inch. Makes me wonder how I EVER switched gears. Also, when the clutch pedal is resting, the fork is fairly tight against the pushrod. Should this be slightly loose at rest?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that extending or retracting the pushrod won't really change anything since the stroke length will still be the same. It looks to me like the system needs bled. Apparently, some air is absorbing some of the stroke travel. Please advise if you guys feel differently.

[CJ428CJ]

Hmm, that does sound like the problem to me but you may not actually be that far off from what you need. According to the ERA manual, the clutch fork at the pushrod should travel about 3/4 inch. I say bleed the system and see what happens.

Chris

[decooney]

If panic ever happens again at a stoplight, shut off the motor and put it in whatever gear you need to go from there... .

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but...

Another test is to put the car on jackstands, start the car, and see if your clutch is working to engage/disengage the rear wheels from rotating while in gear. If you are fully depressing the clutch pedal and the rear wheels keep spinning while in gear, its a good chance you won't get in gear easily at the next stoplight either.

You can perform the opposite test with the motor shut off, while on jackstands, to see if you can rotate the rear wheels by hand while the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor by a helper friend. If you cannot rotate the rear wheels with the clutch pedal to the floor, there is a good chance the clutch/pressure plate/slave cylinder is not doing its job for whatever reasons.

[GeorgiaSnake]

If the pushrod is not right it will limit the slave travel available. TC and I figured this out two weeks ago. It's a trial and error thing trying to do this via post. Shove it in gear and drive on over - we can fix it in 20 minutes

Randy