Kablooey!

[MidOHasp]

Was out on the weekend at a family reunion giving rides to all the kiddies and went to give one of them a little thrill, and KABLOOEY! Billowing white pouring out of every hole on the front half of the car imaginable. Engine seemed to be running OK, yet, so I figured I lost a coolant hose and expedited the delivery of $25/gallon Evans Coolant all over a random country road (and into the air via immediate vaporization).

Was about 1/10th of a mile from "home" so I kept her running up the slight hill and around the corner and shut her down as the temp gauge rose as quickly as it could.

Home engineered surge tank had popped clean off the thermostat housing. Bad hose had lost its grip on the housing. Filled system with water, put it back together, and have been driving fine since...but this tells me that the J.P. Engineering surge tank, while nice looking (and original off an FE modified to fit my windsor AND keep the March high-mount alternator), will not continue to work. I need all hard parts between the engine and surge tank. Lesson learned.

In the process, I'd like to offer up an anti-recommendation on Evans Coolant.

On the surface (research other posts by me on this topic) I like it. It tastes good and doesn't kill you like regular EG anti-freeze. It doesn't boil until way beyond my motor would be melting and it doesn't freeze. It's good stuff. My engine ran considerably cooler (well, I'll get to that later). Did I mention it tasted good?

I did notice that my oil temps were running considerably hotter than before. Considerably as in increased from typical cruising of 160 and hard driving 190 to typical cruising of 190-200 and hard driving of 230-245.

Led me to one conclusion. Specific Heat Capacity of Evans cooling is about 30% lower (worse) than water. It's just not pulling the heat out of the engine. Sure, it's running cooler. Hell, SAND would run a LOT cooler. But my engine would melt and die. Just think...if you fill up your cooling system with sand or play-doh or oatmeal, pick your poisin, the "coolant" would probably run cooler than water. And you would melt down.

I had gotten used to the new temps because they weren't alarming, just cause for some concern and gauge vigilance. There was something disconcerting about the water gauge reading 70C and the oil gauge reading 95C......tooling down the interstate.

On the way home from the reunion running well water and a little leftover Evans (no worries, no extended well water plans), the gauges reversed. Water: 90. Oil: 70.

To me, that's closer to the way it should be. That tells me water is pulling heat out of the engine. Having read Turk's extended run-stand research where coolant makeup was the independent variable, I think I'm going to go with water and water wetter only. Seems to do the trick right...and when a hose happens to let go, it's no fun watching $100 in steam blow out the "gills" and hood scoop.

Hope this helps anyone considering using Evans. Cool product to be sure. Just didn't fit my needs at all, probably won't really fit yours, either!!!

JP

[Tom Wells]

Yo JP,

Does the housing have a lip for the hose to go over?

Reason I ask is that I had a power steering hose blow off - the low pressure hose no less - because the tubing the hose slipped on to was smooth.

Once I made a lip with the first half of a double flaring tool it has held ever since.

Just a thought,

Tom

[MidOHasp]

Tom,

The housing originally had a lip. But to fix a clearance issue, I machined down the housing body about 3/4". Now, there is no lip.

The hose was not of the reinforced variety. It was a precut section that was the perfect size. Not being reinforced, it bulges slightly between two hose clamps.

As that bulging continues and the hose hot and cold soaks, I think it wriggles its way up the housing.

I'm going to make the change to the rolled aluminum 351 tank from cobraaccessories.com so that it's all hard parts and no hoses. I think I'll be safe then!

Thanks for the heads up, I suspect that you have hit my problem on the head.

[clayfoushee]

Good technical bulletin JP....very useful.

[MidOHasp]

Thanks...

I think the Evans coolant can give someone a false sense of security. Especially depending on how few gauges you have. If you aren't running oil temp, you won't know that you're actually doing more harm.

I think the stuff was developed for drag engines that work better when hotter than hell. These engines run at 250+ degrees and get rebuilt frequently. Evans won't boil, water will.

Does anyone want their Cobra engine running at 250? If so, buy Evans and you can do it.

If not? Stick with good ol' water....the BEST coolant!

[relaxinrob]

I have often heard that water has the best thermo-dynamic properties..... I guess that's why they use it to cool nuclear reactors.

[Turk]

Distilled water and two bottles of Water Wetter gave me the best combination of lower temperatures. That is if you are fortunate enough to live in climates where freezing is never an issue.

TURK

[aeroleague]

J.P Can you run that rolled tank with March pulleys on a 351 W? I'm thinking about buying one.
Thanks, Mark

[MidOHasp]

Mark,
no.

JP

PS...March makes a low (original) mount kit and I suppose you could run that rolled tank w/ that. It probably looks nice (billet alum) like the March hi-mount kit. Going to research it this year in the offseason. May be yanking the motor which would make it nice and easy...

[CobraEd]

Yeah, This was a very informative post. Thanks!!!

[Cracker]

Turk wrote:

That is if you are fortunate enough to live in climates where freezing is never an issue.

Hellville - I guess your right. I find that a strange way to conclude yourself "fortunate" but whatever makes your skirt fly up.

[wilf leek]

Tip- how to make a hose-retaining lip on a plain tube end, to stop the hose pulling off.

Work out about where the hose clip will sit relevant to the end of the metal tube. Drill approx 6 small holes (1/8") into the tube, equi-spaced around the circumference, to be outboard of the hose clip outer edge (outer means relative to the metal tube end, not the rubber hose). Thread a piece of soft welding or brazing rod into those holes - interlacing it in and out of alternate holes around the circumference of the tube.

Works a treat, costs $0. Or near enough. Saves buying a new surge tank JP!

[PatBuckley]

Man, if I used TWO cans of Water Weter and distilled water on my engine it would run too cold!

[xlr8or]

Does Water Wetter have any anti corrosion qualities like the anti freeze products claim? Is there a need for any when using distilled water? What about switching a system that's been up for a while to the distilled water and water wetter?

[BevanWright]

I always run 1/2 and 1/2 antifreeze (glycol - standard green stuff) and water - never boils, never overheats.
That is for on the road and on the track.

[MidOHasp]

Wilf,

Jolly good, then. Never would have thought of that in a million years. I do like the look of the rolled aluminium surge tank...always considered it anyways, this just expedited that process.

But, in the mean-time, I am actually excited to try your method!

[SFfiredog]

Take a look at the polished stainless tank made by Superformance for the 351W.
It is beautiful, well made and should clear the alternator mount.
Around $350.00
PS., pure water with anti-corrosive/lubricant additive is the way to go as long as you don't have to worry about freezing.
--Mike

[bremillard]

Evans coolant is a great product. For my money it is far and away the best coolant available. Water may have slightly better heat transfer properties but it offers nothing else. It seems to me that your cooling system may be inadequate. I would address that issue before I added 1 ounce of water into my motor. Water corrodes, freezes and becomes steam when boiled which is not an effective heat exchanger. If you are using any aluminum parts on your motor that come into contact with coolant they will quickly corrode due to electrolysis. If your motor had a tendency to blow hoses off before, this will become more of an issue with water as the only thing that you can do to prevent water from boiling is to pressurize your cooling system with a higher rated radiator cap. Also, you may be adding lubricant and ccas to your water but you had better closely monitor these additive levels as they fairly quickly become ineffective. If you have ever disassembled a diesel engine that has been run without antifreeze you will readily see what kind of destruction water can cause even with additives. Also, you are only one cold day away from severe engine damage due to freezing. I know of one hotrodder here in Socal who sold and shipped a car to a guy on the east coast. It was shipped in December without antifreeze-an oversite on both the buyer and sellers part. By the time the car arrived to the new buyer the block was cracked and ruined. -Bob

[MidOHasp]

Bob,

While I do appreciate your post, I wonder how much experience you have with properly set up water based cooling systems before you a) tout Evans and b) warn of water based cooling systems (easily 99% of them are EGW mixes) and their impending Armageddon.

Fact: Water is not a "slightly" better heat transfer agent than Evans coolant. It is 30+ percent better by the numbers. If you don't believe me, go to the Evans coolant system website. Good technical data there.

Fact: There is no better heat transfer agent (that could be used in an engine cooling system) than water. Except maybe water with water wetter.

Fact: Distilled water will not undergo electrolysis and corrode the aluminum parts. Distilled water cannot undergo electrolysis without some sort of ions floating around. Take a multimeter that is clean and put both ends in a clean glass of distilled water. It will not pass current. Iron block can still rust a little bit, but is this new news? Where is the mass grave of iron blocks, ruined forever by water in the cooling system?

Fact: I didn't blow my cooling system because of having too much pressure due to boiling. I have a high-flow thermostat and a high volume water pump with a standard (NOT UNDERDRIVE) pulley. I had a piece of non-reinforced hose on a tube without a lip. Over time, it worked its way up, and when turning 6500 RPM, the pressure associated with the volume of water pushed it the rest of the way off. I was running about 75C at the time (167F) and boiling (and the resultant pressure) was not an issue.

Fact: My cooling system is not inadequate and is probably one of the best cooling systems in a Cobra Replica. The Superformance radiator (from the BMW V12 7-series) is pretty adequate.

Point: I am aware of the fact that an iron block full of water will crack when frozen. When the leaves start to fall here in O-hi-O, I will drain some water, add some anti-freeze, and shake it all up.

Fact: Evans coolant was initially designed and tested in racing applications, namely drag racing. The drag motors in question were designed to run at very high temperatures for very brief periods of time, and when running at those temps, a water based cooling system would boil over and lose all capacity. The Evans coolant bypassed that issue by raising the BP to around 275F. The engine would thus run at those increased water, block, head, and oil temps, make the power necessary for a few seconds at a time, and then be rebuilt due to the incredible stresses placed on the motor as a result of the heat, loads, RPMs, etc...

Point: I like to use things that were designed somewhat for my intended use. Evans coolant is a very neat product. It has many merits. But in a street motor that I cannot afford to replace regularly, I prefer to transfer heat out of the engine and into the air. Leaving it in there to roast bearings, warp heads, and fry oil is not my idea of a good time.

To me, the merit of the Evans Coolant (in a street motor) stop at its lack of toxicity and its resistance to boiling out. However, I have proven time and time again with water that my HIGHLY ADEQUATE cooling system will run at 80C all day long even when beating the proverbial sh*t out of it. I tried Evans because it seemed nice, given the amount of custom work done under my hood, to reduce pressure and volatility. But, with a hi-vol pump in a closed system, pressure builds anyways. I still lose Evans into my catch can because I'm just pushing that much fluid through.

I haven't gained anything. Not to mention, when a hose gives (which, incidentally, wasn't a regular occurrence with water in my system), I'd rather lose 15 dollars worth of stuff than 100.

If a water based cooling system was so bad, why do you think that 99% of people stick by it and many swear by it? Do you have an oil temp gauge in your car? I'll bet a six-pack of your favorite beer (Heineken will work for me) that if you do, and you do a controlled, single variable test, your oil temp will drop at LEAST 10F degrees if you dump the Evans and run water.

Bob, this post isn't a flame, but I want to set the record straight. There has been some idle chit-chat about Evans on this forum and you know...when something gets enough air time, people start giving it a try. I did!

I'd just hate to see one more person go drop 150 bucks and spend a half day flushing and cleansing their system, filling with Evans, and seeing less desirable results. Adequacy of cooling system is just not an issue here...with Evans, my system ran at 150 degrees. I could stick my hand in that without doing damage. Even after a flogging. My thermostat wasn't even open! I've verified the accuracy of my temp gauge.

If I was running a drag motor, I'd run the stuff. In a heartbeat. Nothing better. It is an amazing product. It just doesn't help in an expensive street motor that can't be easily replaced. These statements are firmly between opinion and fact. I have facts to back up my opinion that the stuff is not great for our purposes.

Water and water wetter. Do a search on "water wetter" with the user name "TURK". Controlled, single variable testing on a run stand. Doesn't get much more scientific than that.

Again, no flame intended. I just want to set the record straight when people search for info on Evans. Make your own decisions, but I would call my net results telling at a minimum.

Hope this helps anyone looking for answers....

[MidOHasp]

SFfiredog...

For some reason, and I dunno why, I don't like the polished stainless SPF tank. It's just "too much bling" for me. My underhood is somewhat custom (pretty standard black crinkle Cobra Oval air cleaner and black crinkle open letter Cobra valve covers) with the alternator setup and custom surge tank setup. I have a high mount alternator, which will not fit the SPF flat black or polished stainless tank. I took a tank from a 390 Thunderbird and extensively modified it to fit my setup.

Once I drop the alternator down, I just totally dig on the look of the bare aluminum tank from Cobraaccessories.com.

I've seen the SPF tank on many SPFs and it is a beautiful thing. Just doesn't fit with the look I developed under my hood...purely a personal taste and theme thing. I do appreciate the recommendation, though!!!