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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 08:48 AM
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Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 427 (KMP 266); CAV GT40
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bead blast the tank,it then looks like dull aluminum. chuck
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 09:17 AM
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JP,
I am a diesel mechanic. I have put dozens of new liners into motors that have had the coolant neglected. The corrosion eats right through the cylinder walls. Seeing is believing. Admittedly, most Cobras have varying degrees of cooling inadequacies due to the size limits for the radiator and fan. Mine is no different. I did not mean to say that your car is incorrect in any way. If straight water works for you and you are satisfied then okie dokie. I will address some of your points for the benefit of others. You are correct that water is aprox 30% better heat transfer agent than Evans. However, in a 50-50 mixture with glycol and water the difference is much less-maybe as little as 10%. Very few people use straight water in an adequately sized cooling system. The only ones I have ever seen were bandaiding other problems. A 50-50 60-40(40 being the glycol) mix does an excellent job as a coolant and preservant and for many people is the only way to go. You will have to flush and fill your system every two years or so. Point 2. Distilled water becomes undistilled almost immediately upon circulating in an iron block. You will have electrolysis damage unless you use some kind of anode in your system. Drain some of the water out of your engine and hook your multi-meter back up and see what happens. Point 3. I was a drag racer for many years and I did not ever see anyone use Evans coolant in any drag race vehicle. I don't know why Evans developed this stuff but he did not get rich on drag racers. Most used plain old water that they drain and refill after every run. Now, many use a closed system with an electric fan and waterpump which they allow to run after they shut the motor off. Maybe they have Evans coolant in some of them but, again, I don't know of any personally. Drag motors are not designed to run very hot . In fact, they make more power when just barely warm than when hot. I never left the starting line with a coolant temp over 120 degrees. Alchohol and nitro motors use no coolant at all as they are not running long enough to build up any appreciable heat. Drag engines will run hot if left running as their cooling systems are undersized purposely to save weight. One more thing, new synthetic oils are made to withstand much more heat than you are talking about without any problem. I will stand by my opinion that a engine with a properly sized cooling system using Evans coolant and a quality synthetic oil will last much longer than an engine using straight water with an additive. -Bob
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:07 AM
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I hate it when somebody blows a hose on the track and spills antifreeze all over. Run WATER only when your racing, put your antifreeze back in at home!

Water freezes? Not around here it don't!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 11:30 AM
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Bob,

You are obviously very knowledgeable. I understand your counterpoints and was going to add something about distilled water becoming un-distilled upon entry into a very non-sterile environment (ionically speaking).

Allow me to respectfully counterpoint back, one more time, though...

The Evans website talks a lot about drag racing - more so than any other use. I assumed, therefore, that drag racing was the initial developing and proving ground.

"a engine with a properly sized cooling system using Evans coolant and a quality synthetic oil will last much longer than an engine using straight water with an additive"

I disagree with that and don't know what basis you have for that. Certainly your basis is your expertise as a diesel mechanic. Fine. But, in what terms are you talking about the engine lasting longer? Water jackets being free of scale?

Yes, modern synthetic oils can run hotter without experiencing viscocity breakdown or flashing, but are hotter bearing surface temps really better? Are hotter cyl head temps really better? According to your drag racing days, no.

You made a good point though, about properly sized cooling systems. I am sure a big enough radiator with strong enough puller fans could probably keep an Evans cooled engine as cool as a water cooled engine.

I'm not being a smartass here, I'm trying to take in an opinion from an obviously knowledgeable mechanic, and file it away in the "things worth thinking about" folder. Would I be incorrect in saying you think that.....

"Evans Coolant, in terms of chemical makeup, and the resultant effects on engine block and accessories, is the most ideal coolant out there. Due to its lesser specific heat capacity, a 'proper' sized cooling system must become larger. The ideal setup, then, is an oversized cooling system running Evans Coolant."

Oversized becomes a relative term. Many of us are indeed bandaiding a cooling problem...The problem of running a big, high performance engine in a car with limited space for a radiator sets a new standard for cooling system capacity. In general, that capacity is reduced on a Cobra/Cobra replica. Perhaps oversized in a Cobra is really just the right size.

But the reality of it all is that we all have somewhat diminished cooling capacities, although I believe that the newer SPF cars and their radiators (and I'm sure other mfr's, too...i'm only familiar with my radiator) don't really have a diminished cooling capacity.

If you are talking about 500,000 mile diesel motors experiencing breakdown due to water coolant, OK. But I think most of us are talking about engines that are not intended to last 20 years.

I just think that for our typical use, the stresses put on an engine will be less when running water and pumping more heat out of the engine. I don't think (regardless of the oil properties) that it's healthy to run 240F oil temps consistently. I saw 200 cruising and 240 running hard - with Evans. I see 160 cruising and 180 running hard - with water.

Thanks for the insight into your personal knowledge, though, and I mean it. Filed away....
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 12:45 PM
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I too am a diesel mechanic. Nearly all pitting and damage done to diesel cylinder liners is caused by "cavitation erosion"
This process is caused by the super high cylinder pressures created during the combustion cycle of the diecel engine causing the liner to "flex' or "buldge". The liquid molecules surrounding the liner get "shaken" into creating tiny bublles on the surface of the liner,. almost like a can of cola. When these bubbles burst (explode, actually), they carry away a microscopic piece if the liner.
Eventually the liner will fail. This was a serious problem on high milage 7.3 liter Ford diesels. The two rear cylinders would fail, or if the engine came in for a rebuild, the two rear cylinders always needed sleeves. Obviously, the rear cylinders are farthest away from the water pump.
To help remedy this situation, higher pressure radiator caps are used and special additives are used in diesels to help prevent caviation erosion. The type of coolant used doesn't matter so much, the additive does.
Our newest Fire Engines hold 65 quarts of coolant.
Jeez, can you imagine how much it would cost to fill it with Evans Cool
--Mike
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 04:55 PM
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about 500 bucks?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:22 PM
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Mike, JP and all,
I have seen very few if any pitted liners on motors that have used either a glycol mix and cca's or extended life antifreeze that was properly maintained and either recharged in the case of the extended life or changed, flushed and refilled in the case of the glycol mix. Motors with water only(no antifreeze) and cca charged coolant filters have some protection but still will fail prematurely. Systems with water only will fail rapidly. JP, the biggest problem with the iron rust in your engine is not the liner failure as in the diesel, but rather the radiator and heater core it clogs and the waterpump seal and bearing it abrades. Also, most head gaskets have some type of steel shim. Even if it is sandwiched between layers of something else it can rust out and cause serious engine damage. You are correct in your summation of the Evans product. You must have a correctly sized (or oversized if you like) system to overcome it's reduced ability to carry heat but the engines coolant must do more than just cool. I was always speaking in "Ideal" situations when I was extolling the virtues of Evans. I, also have an less than ideal cooling capacity but I am working on that problem with better hardware as I do not feel running straight water is a viable option. Are we becoming friends? P.S. I lived in the Detroit area for 18 years during my drag racing heyday. I have raced at some of your local strips-Norwalk and Columbus to name a couple.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2004, 10:03 PM
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I used to race Minis, and the majority of people doing so would have overheating problems if running straight water, due to the small capacity of fluid, low boiling point of water and small radiators. The practice of 50:50 Glycol and water kicked in and nobody overheated.

I hardly ever see radiator hoses blowing, or falling off, it shouldnt happen if the engine isnt presssurizing the water, or the hoses are clamped correctly.

I also run an electric pump, and a large aluminium radiator in the Cobra, and I often have the opposite problem in that I cant get the car to warm up enough, and have a cover for the oil cooler on cooler days.
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