fuel injected 302 guru needed!

[ivebeenbit]

i hope someone can answer my question.
i have a 302--24lbs injectors--c&l mass air meter housing 73mm
edelbrock 65mm throttle body.stock 92 notchback ecm--
stock air flow meter,e cam,edelbrock aluminum performer heads.

when the car is started cold-starts and stalls atleast 5 times.

when the car is warm and crusing the car hesitates alot,only
when at 25% throttle or under--i have checked all of the basics.

the car had a cobra computer in it,i was told a cobra computer is
not the best-so installed stock one

any help???
dave

[Robert Duncan]

The tables in the EEC must match the air meter flow calibration and injector size. The Cobra EEC is set for 24lb injectors and stock air flow meter.

If you are using a non-Cobra EEC (like an A9L, A9P, A9M) it is set for 19 lb injectors. You need a custom air meter calibration or a tool that changes the ECC tables (like a twEECer or EEC tuner).

[ivebeenbit]

do you know the part number for the air flow meter--non
cobra computer model--i was told you cannot get a cobra
air flow meter unless you buy the computer and the
injectors--do you know if the stock air flow meter is adjustable?

thanks dave

[FattyBri]

assuming your C&L is calibrated for 24# inj. Do you have access to another (not C&L) 24# meter? I've heard over and over again about driving problems with the C&Ls.

[Wade Chamberlain]

If you're running the Cobra computer, you'll need a MAF meter calibrated for 19# injectors, just like the stocker. The conversion to 24# injector fuel maps is done inside the 'puter.

If you're running a non-Cobra computer (A9L, A9P, etc.), you'll need a meter calibrated for 24# injectors.

I've had terrible luck with C&L meters doing exactly what you described. They're calibrated WAY lean, which leads to the following....

- cold start problems...stalling, surging, etc.
- lean misfire and popping back through the intake during part throttle operation on a cold engine
- the exhaust will burn your eyes which makes you think it's rich....it's not...it's SUPER lean
- the car will basically fall on it's face until the operating temp is high enough to let the computer go closed loop, at which point the 02 sensors provide feedback and fuel trim to richen the mixture up a bit.

With the cobra computer, find somebody w/ a stock MAF meter and swap it in for a trial...I bet you'll find it runs very well. With the non-cobra computer, you'll need to find another meter calibrated for 24's. If you want a bigger meter, go with a ProM.

[ivebeenbit]

that is exactly whats going on--i just spoke to a mustang
performance shop in my area and told me i need the larger
tube replaced in my air flow meter housing--they asked if it was
blue-i said no,so they said i need to replace that tube
to a larger one--
what do you think?
dave

[MJN]

The C&L meters seem to cause a lot of problems, I replaced mine a long time ago and have never regretted it.

Pro-M sells a really nice line of 80mm meters that come with a filter. Currently they are on sale for $199 on the www.pro-flow.com website. Check out the sale page. I currently have one of the 80mm meters and I am extremely happy with it. Very driveable. I believe Wade has the same meter as well.

[Wade Chamberlain]

Dave - I'd try to find another meter, other than C&L, to borrow and try before you spend more money. Yes, you can replace the sample tube in the C&L to change the calibration, but I don't think that'll solve your problem. If you change the calibration to 24#, then you MUST run the stock computer. If you try to run the Cobra computer w/ the 24# calibration tube, it'll be even leaner than it already is.

19# calibrated meter = use the cobra computer
24# calibrated meter = use the stock computer

Like Mike said, the ProM 80mm meter is awesome. That's what I run now, after fighting with two different C&L meters for 2 months. $199 is a great price....I paid $325 a couple years ago. If you do go w/ a new meter, get it calibrated for 24# injectors and go back to the stock computer. It'll make more power than the Cobra computer.

[ivebeenbit]

Originally posted by Wade Chamberlain


Dave - I'd try to find another meter, other than C&L, to borrow and try before you spend more money. Yes, you can replace the sample tube in the C&L to change the calibration, but I don't think that'll solve your problem. If you change the calibration to 24#, then you MUST run the stock computer. If you try to run the Cobra computer w/ the 24# calibration tube, it'll be even leaner than it already is.

19# calibrated meter = use the cobra computer
24# calibrated meter = use the stock computer

Like Mike said, the ProM 80mm meter is awesome. That's what I run now, after fighting with two different C&L meters for 2 months. $199 is a great price....I paid $325 a couple years ago. If you do go w/ a new meter, get it calibrated for 24# injectors and go back to the stock computer. It'll make more power than the Cobra computer.

i am going to go with your suggestion,will pro m calibrate the meter before you get it if need be?
dave

[Wade Chamberlain]

yup. They'll ask you a bunch of questions when you order, and it comes calibrated. Plug it in and go. If you ever swap in bigger injectors, you can send it back and get it recalibrated.

[ivebeenbit]

i have had the pro-m air flow meter for one week--the car
drives better but still does not idle correctly.
when started cold-the idle goes up and down.i have to
keep my foot on the gas to keep it from stalling.after i drive
the car and come to a stop the car idles fine.i have spoken
to everyone that works there still waiting for a answer
what do you think?

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Hi,
That is a typical symptom of the throttle position sensor. Get a digital voltmeter and connect to the black and orange[green on some years]wires, turn key on,engine off. meter should read DC volts. 0.997 is optimal setting, yours probably reads 0.8xx something. loosen the 2 black screws and try and move the sensor to give that voltage reading. If not enough adjustment,then take it off and use a small round file or drill bit and make the holes 'slightly' bigger and try again for 0.997 volts, don't adjust over 1 volt. If the idle still varies ,the carbon in the sensor is breaking down, get a new sensor.
Perry.

[ivebeenbit]

i see what you are saying about the throttle sensor,and i checked
the readings which come up normal,what i do not understand is
when the car is warm and i get it to idle normally its great.
i shut the car off and then restart it and it will not idle unless i
use my foot to stablize the idle?

[Dwight]

KMP (KEEP ME POSTED)

[ivebeenbit]

Originally posted by Dwight


KMP

[Dwight]

I HAVE TO SAME PROBLEM. STARTS EASY BUT I HAVE TO USE THE PEDAL TO KEEP IT IDLING UNTILL IT WARMS UP. I HAVE A PRO FLOW MASS AIR CALIBRATED FOR THE 24 LB INJECTORS. STOCK COMPUTER FROM A 89 AUTO MUSTANG. O2 ARE NEW AND ARE LOCATED 14" FROM THE HEADS. I CHECKED THE TPS. LAST WEEK I LOWER THE FUEL PRESSURE TO 40 LBS BUT THE EXHAUST BURNED OUR EYE. WE HAD TO LEAVE THE SHOP.
HOW DO I ENRICH THE FUEL MIXTURE? I CLEANED THE TPS, BUT HOW DO I KNOW IF I NEED A NEW ONE?

[ivebeenbit]

Originally posted by Dwight


I HAVE TO SAME PROBLEM. STARTS EASY BUT I HAVE TO USE THE PEDAL TO KEEP IT IDLING UNTILL IT WARMS UP. I HAVE A PRO FLOW MASS AIR CALIBRATED FOR THE 24 LB INJECTORS. STOCK COMPUTER FROM A 89 AUTO MUSTANG. O2 ARE NEW AND ARE LOCATED 14" FROM THE HEADS. I CHECKED THE TPS. LAST WEEK I LOWER THE FUEL PRESSURE TO 40 LBS BUT THE EXHAUST BURNED OUR EYE. WE HAD TO LEAVE THE SHOP.
HOW DO I ENRICH THE FUEL MIXTURE? I CLEANED THE TPS, BUT HOW DO I KNOW IF I NEED A NEW ONE?

ok i spoke to another guy at pro m--he told me to disconnect
the mass air when cold while running and if the idle stops fluctuating the mass air will need to be recalibrated-if it
continues then there is something else wrong.
i will try that--what do you think,adding ground wires has
helped out alot

[Dwight]

COME ON GUYS, I NEED HELP!

[ivebeenbit]

Originally posted by Dwight


COME ON GUYS, I NEED HELP!

hey dwight did you try running a ground wire from your
battery to your computer--i did and the car runs alot better
but still does not idle properly when cold
dave

[Dwight]

MY COMPUTER IS GROUNDED. I BORROWED COACH MIKE'S 92 COMPUTER. FRIDAY I WILL SWAP THEM OUT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.