Securing steering shaft???

tpiini · #1 (**permalink**) 06-29-2005, 04:32 PM

Today I had a scary wake-up call. I went to take the Cobra out and immediately noticed that the steering had some play. I stopped in the garage to look things over. I found that the (approx) 5/16" roll pin that holds the steering shaft to the first part of the steering linkage, a hollow tube, had all-but fallen out! Thank God I noticed the play before I got out somewhere where someone would have been hurt, as it was just BARELY in there and definitely would have fallen out on the road, leaving me without any steering.

I tapped it the rest of the way out and replaced it with a 5/16" fine thread bolt, double-nutted & red loctite.

Now the question. Is that an okay fix? Is a roll pin the standard way to secure these shafts? If anyone has a better idea, I'm all over it. steering & brakes are the two things I don't ever want to have fail on me.

Thanks, Tom

blykins · #2 (**permalink**) 06-29-2005, 05:48 PM

Tom,

I'm going through the same thing. I just didn't like the fact that a little roll pin kept the steering together.

For one thing, with my steering column, I got an aluminum piece that slides down over the roll pin and attached with a little bolt...so the roll pin can't fall out. I guess yours doesn't have that.

You could either call SV and get that piece and slide it over....or you could do what I'm doing....That bolt will probably eventually woller that hole out and you'll get more play in your steering.

I made two flanges....one that fits over the 7/8" OD lower shaft....and one that fits over the 3/4" solid upper shaft. They are 2" OD ....and have a 1/4" 4-bolt pattern.

Each flange will be welded to its corresponding shaft...and then the two flanges will be bolted together.

I did some stress calculations on the piece....Using 500 lb-ft as the max torque in the steering shaft. (Most HD steering u-joints are rated for 350 lb-ft.) The 4 bolts (using G8 bolts) will have a safety factor of over 2 with this setup. I would trust it over the little roll pin.

The other option is replacing everything from the upper solid 3/4" steering shaft down with some aftermarket pieces that include adapters and splined u-joints. However the way our car is designed, I didn't see how to do that easily and make it work without the steering wheel being free to just pull straight out. That upper shaft would have to be secured to keep it from pulling out of the u-joint.

With the flanges, you get support in both directions.

Just my $.03.

Steve R · #3 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 01:50 AM

Tom,
Would you post a photo of that setup for us?

Terry Stapley · #4 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 07:16 AM

Brent, if I understand what you are attempting on the steering shaft. you are going to weld a flange on the lower end of the top shaft. With this done, will you be able to ever remove the top shaft from the aluminum column to service the bearings if needed?
My SV also has the sleeve that covers the roll pin that is retained with a set screw and after 4000 miles the steering is just as tight as when 0 miles!
Terry

tpiini · #5 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 07:17 AM

Are you sure you're wanting a picture of my el-cheapo quick & dirty bolt-through-the-hole, or did you mean to ask Brent for a picture of his ultra-cool major-piece-of-engineering coupler???

Tom

blykins · #6 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 07:34 AM

Terry....you can remove it from the firewall side. Unbolt the flange, remove the steering wheel, turn signal switch, and steering wheel flange and pull the 3/4" shaft out from the firewall side.

If I remember correctly, the 3/4" shaft will go down through the aluminum column from either direction.

Terry Stapley · #7 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 09:36 AM

Brent, I was thinking that the steering wheel end has a flare to it but upon further review I think it is the same diameter.
When you figure out what you are going to do, would you please send me a parts list and some photos. I would like to change a few things on mine also: aka the rag connection!
Terry

blykins · #8 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 09:41 AM

I haven't touched anything down there yet....don't know if I will or not.

I am, however, going to change the connection between the two shafts. I just think it's stouter and safer.

rooster · #9 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 09:42 AM

Hey guys, I have a Shell Valley also and what I did was make a
"D" shaped hole out of the round tube by making a spool like thread comes on out of steel and slicing it lengthwise. Then I milled two slots in the tube for the ridges on the spool to fit into and welded it in on the outside. Then I smoothed it up and you can't even see it. Then I milled a flat on the 3/4 shaft to the right size and it fits perfect. Then I put a 3/16 hardened pin through it just to keep the shaft from pulling out. My steering wheel is now hooked to the wheels with no slop but the components are still removable. Hope this makes sence. Russ

zipzip · #10 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 10:51 AM

Not to be a smartarse, but why not just safety wire through the rollpin to keep it from coming out of the shaft?

Brent - good to be cautious but did you look at the rollpin stress? An 1/8 dia pin has a 2100 lb double shear strength. I believe the key however, is to make yourself comfortable with the strength of the components you are trusting your life to. Just trying to point out that rollpins are tuff little buggers...

If you feel the need, coiled roll pins have an even higher shear strength.

blykins · #11 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 11:04 AM

I didn't check out the roll pin stresses....I'm sure it could take a lot more than what you think since it's in double shear.

However, I just felt creative yesterday.

tpiini · #12 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 12:55 PM

Rooster,

Perhaps I'm just having a dumb-down day, but I can't visualize what you have described. I've read the post over & over and I'm not geting anywhere.

Can you try again & simplify it for me?

Thanks, Tom.

Terry Stapley · #13 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 01:32 PM

Me too!! I am blond so can you "splain" it again!! I am lost!!

rooster · #14 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 03:01 PM

I'll try to splaine it better. I took a piece of 1in. dia. round stock 2in. long and turned down the middle of it to 3/4in. dia. leaving 1/8in. on each end still at 1in. dia. Then I sliced it lengthwise and ground it so that the middle piece ended up at .175 and the ends were .300. (thousanths) The cut part will be totally smooth.
Then on the tube going to the first ujoint I milled two 1/8 inch slots .300 deep so the outside of the slots were 2 inches apart.
Then I took the 2inch piece I made and put it inside the tube and the flanges on each end stuck into the slots I milled in the tube.
I made a dummy shaft out of 3/4 brass milled down to .575 to stick in there to hold the piece and welded it to the tube on the outside. I removed the dummy shaft and ground down the outside of the tube so it looks like new on the outside but when you look inside it has a "D" shaped hole in it. Then I milled the shaft coming from the steering wheel down to .575 about 2 1/2 inches from the end and it fits right in there. I just had to orient the strait up position of the steering wheel to the rack being in the middle of it's travel. It worked out perfect and I think it's as strong as it can be. Hope this paints a clearer picture for you guys. I'm kinda proud of my invention and don't mind sharing it with you but I don't really know how to write things to well.
Let me know if you understand this explanation.
Russ

Steve R · #15 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tpiini

Are you sure you're wanting a picture of my el-cheapo quick & dirty bolt-through-the-hole, or did you mean to ask Brent for a picture of his ultra-cool major-piece-of-engineering coupler???

Tom

The one on your car.
There are many different types of joints out there. A picture is worth a thousand words. I have some thoughts, but would like to see the steering shaft setup from rack to column first

Steve

Rick Parker · #16 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 09:30 AM

Be carefull how you engineer this system. A slip fit of a shaft in a tube secured by a Grade 8 bolt or roll pin through it is inviting disaster. This is not an area to take shortcuts. Use D shaped or splined shafts and U Joints secured with set screws and Thread locker. Check the websites for the major steering component vendors such as Borgleson or Sweet and follow their lead. Below you can see the lower support for the steering shaft on the footbox, it's got a caged needle bearing in it. More difficult to see is the bearing in the support that is near the rack and pinion below the lower U joint , it helps stabilize the entire shaft coupling and perhaps eliminate any potential binding. The upper part near the steering wheel has a bracket welded to a short steel tube with 2 sealed ball bearing with the shaft passing through it. The bracket is then bolted to the steel substructure that supports the windshield uprights behind the dash panel area.

Rick

Steve R · #17 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 09:53 AM

Rick offers sage advice. Along with that, you can use a large Rod end to locate the intermediate shaft, thus making the splined joints "captive" ' for an added level of safety. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Why are people so reluctent to post a picture????

Steve R · #18 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 10:10 PM

Rick,
Awesome detail. looks great.
Steve

Rick Parker · #19 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 10:12 PM

Thanks Steve............

Rick

tpiini · #20 (**permalink**) 07-03-2005, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve R

No need to reinvent the wheel here. Why are people so reluctent to post a picture????

I've been invaded!!! I have a house stuffed with seven guests right now so getting away to snap a pic, while in the cards, isn't convenient right now. Gimme a day or so...