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06-28-2006, 09:06 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Flower Mound, TX,
tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Lonestar LS 427, Keith Craft 501,Toploader
Posts: 883
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Not Ranked
What? 36 deg. TOTAL timing is about average for all engines. That's about 15 to 18 deg. initial and 18 to 20 advance for anywhere between 33 and 38 total. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
" It ain't no big deal"
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06-28-2006, 09:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Palm Coast,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby American CSX 4241 - authentically built
Posts: 2,573
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Brewer
What? 36 deg. TOTAL timing is about average for all engines. That's about 15 to 18 deg. initial and 18 to 20 advance for anywhere between 33 and 38 total. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Not for a power adder. We run blower/turbo/nitrous cars at about 14-18 degrees on pump gas (depending on setup) and around 20-26 degrees on race fuel.
__________________
Sal Mennella
CSX 4241, KMP 357 - sold and missed, CSX 4819 - cancelled, FFR 5132 - sold
See my car at CSXinfo.net here >> CSX 4241
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06-28-2006, 10:16 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
It's a new ball game with a super charged\power added engine all right. There is no magic number for total timing with such an engine. To much will kill a piston for sure! MUCH more likely to experience 'detonation' with a power adder, correct timing is mandatory. "Experimenting" can be deadly in short order.
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06-28-2006, 11:13 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: metro chicago,
il
Cobra Make, Engine: spf 1837 408w 93mm turbo
Posts: 169
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Not Ranked
how high
well now you've got me thinking. i have been relying on guys who make a living tuning high performance cars mostly nhra. they own a mustang dyno and are tuning hemi's, mods, bb, sb, turbos, twin turbos and superchargers. with nitrous or without. i checked my timing last night and it was at 32d at 3000 rpm. i only run c-110 in the car when on the dyno or at the track c-116 when boosted over 7 lbs. i don't run the same tune on the car for the street but that is preprogrammed on a laptop, i just find the parameters for my boost and fuel and the program is in place. this is all done already and is programmed by them. i will certainly talk to them tonight and register my concerns based upon the info i am getting here.
that said i just spoke with my tuner and he said that your are correct that the 22 - 26 d is correct. we set the timing at 36 d but the engine management system adjusts the timing down when placed under load. i am getting way over my head now. all i can say is the b***** goes pretty good on 5lbs of boost and it is almost insane at 25 lb. we only use c-116 when running over 7 lbs of boost. no signs of detonation and the plugs are looking good on street gas and low boost. i don't know how we got here from engine temps questions but its all interesting isn't it.
__________________
BAD ASP
spf 1837 408w intercooled turbo t56 viper 6spd
95 mustang cobra 408w vortech t trim supercharger
71 torino cobra 429 scj
66 ford galaxie 7 liter
68 buick wildcat 430
Last edited by mike knight; 06-28-2006 at 11:41 AM..
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06-28-2006, 11:33 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Palm Coast,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby American CSX 4241 - authentically built
Posts: 2,573
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike knight
well now you've got me thinking. i have been relying on guys who make a living tuning high performance cars mostly nhra. they own a mustang dyno and are tuning hemi's, mods, bb, sb, turbos, twin turbos and superchargers. with nitrous or without. i checked my timing last night and it was at 32d at 3000 rpm. i only run c-110 in the car when on the dyno or at the track c-116 when boosted over 7 lbs. i don't run the same tune on the car for the street but that is preprogrammed on a laptop, i just find the parameters for my boost and fuel and the program is in place. this is all done already and is programmed by them. i will certainly talk to them tonight and register my concerns based upon the info i am getting here.
that said i just spoke with my tuner and he said that your are correct that the 22 - 26 d is correct. we set the timing at 36 d but the engine managent system adjusts the timing down when placed under load. i am getting way over my head now. all i can say is the b***** goes pretty good on 5lbs of boost and it is almost insane at 25 lb. we only use c-116 when running over 7 lbs of boost. no signs of detonation and the plugs are looking good on street gas and low boost. i don't know how we got here from engine temps questions but its all interesting isn't it.
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Whew, ok. You had me scared there. I can't even fathom a boosted motor living through one WOT blast at 36 degrees .
__________________
Sal Mennella
CSX 4241, KMP 357 - sold and missed, CSX 4819 - cancelled, FFR 5132 - sold
See my car at CSXinfo.net here >> CSX 4241
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06-28-2006, 12:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bartlett,
Ill
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison LS1
Posts: 2,448
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Not Ranked
Mike
If you are aquaman or something like that , a email message from me to you was undeliverable--we are in Elburn and do a lot of work with engines with FAST systems and tuning--have considerable credentials with tuning HP cars
Give us a call at 630-365-6737---we can probably help.
Jerry
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06-28-2006, 03:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Senoia,
Ga.
Cobra Make, Engine: 427SO with big twin autolite inlines on custom intake, jag rear, top loader, wembeldon white, guardsmen blue stripes
Posts: 3,155
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Not Ranked
Tim, heat makes horsepower, just not to much. 210 on an FE is just about right IMHO. I ran a 180 for a while but the 195 thermo definitely improved performance. It's a mopar thermo, the large one.
__________________
Perry
Remember!, there's a huge difference between a 'parts' changer, and a mechanic.
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06-28-2006, 06:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sacramento,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2046; P.E. Aluminum 427 Windsor.
Posts: 498
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Not Ranked
My 427 Windsor runs at 90 c on the freeway even on hot days. It has climbed to 105 c in traffic. The fans kick on at around 100 c and bring it back down to 100 c slowly. I was told by my SPF dealer who had a similar setup(408W) that I should not be concerned with temps as high as 105 c.
I hope he was right. So far I have noticed no ill effects. I run a 180 degree balanced thermostat.
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Jim
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06-28-2006, 07:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: metro chicago,
il
Cobra Make, Engine: spf 1837 408w 93mm turbo
Posts: 169
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Not Ranked
how high
__________________
BAD ASP
spf 1837 408w intercooled turbo t56 viper 6spd
95 mustang cobra 408w vortech t trim supercharger
71 torino cobra 429 scj
66 ford galaxie 7 liter
68 buick wildcat 430
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06-29-2006, 02:02 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 6
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Not Ranked
Hi - your temperature limit is basically the boiling point of your system, you gave a lot of info on your car in your first post, but didn't indicate the pressure cap that you are running.
At standard pressure (1atm) water boils at 100c (212) i.e. without a cap - change that to a 50/50 mix of water and ethylene glycol antifreeze in the cooling system will boil at 225°. Pressurizing the system with a spring-loaded cap raises the boiling temperature of the mix about 3° for every 1 psi of pressure. With a 15 psi cap, the boiling temperature will be up around 265° F
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06-29-2006, 06:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: metro chicago,
il
Cobra Make, Engine: spf 1837 408w 93mm turbo
Posts: 169
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Not Ranked
how high
that is extremely helpful info azjulian. i am running with a 15 lb cap. it has been suggested by jclayton that i go to a 30 lb cap. i am feeling much better about the heat. took bad asp out tonight and for the first time took it on the highway. temp stayed at 90c. drove it in 45h,5th and 6th and the temp remained constant. thank you all for the invaluable info. success with these things really does come down to a team effort doesn't it. right now i'm about 30% antifreeze and 70% water with a full bottle of water wetter.
__________________
BAD ASP
spf 1837 408w intercooled turbo t56 viper 6spd
95 mustang cobra 408w vortech t trim supercharger
71 torino cobra 429 scj
66 ford galaxie 7 liter
68 buick wildcat 430
Last edited by mike knight; 06-29-2006 at 06:51 PM..
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