engine temp how high is "normal"

[mike knight]

my car is a superformance #1837 with a 408w and the following:

fuel injection
stock rad with a 2300 cfm flex lite pusher fan ( i can't find anything larger that will fit. the intercooler is behind the rad so i am stuck with a pusher)
intercooled 93mm garrett turbo
fast management
93 lb injectors
running 5 lbs boost on the street (i have dynoed with 25 lbs and intercooler way too much for the street)
crower cam profiled for this set-up
4 bolt main
ke pistons
ferria valves
tfs heads ported
centerforce
tremec t56
idle 20 degrees advance over 2500 36 degrees
sorry about all the info but all goes into the equation
at issue is my operating temps are going up to about 220 degrees f. 105C. i have been driving around town and this seems to be where the temp is going to be. i have tried 50/50 antifreeze and i am now using 25/75 with a bottle of water wetter. i don't get boil over. on the road the temp hovers around 205f. incidentally at 55 in 6th the tack reads 1300 rpm. oil temp eventually matches coolant temp. fuel pressure and oil pressure stay in the green. i haven't pushed the car during daytime summer heat around here 90+ with 85% humidity. should i be concerned about these temps as i am close to max recommended operating temp or do some of you also operate at these levels?

[double ugly]

Besides really needing a puller fan, what thermostat are you running? Should have a 195 or 210 probably. My Guess.
John

[427SnakeSC]

My normal temp is about 190. I have a thermostatic fan with an overide switch.

[mike knight]

no thermostat. temp comes up really slow but climbs to 105c then seems to stay there.double you live in hell (june/july). what are your high numbers when the evening temps drop down to 90f.
thanks.

[427SnakeSC]

You don't want the engine to run too cold or your rings won't seal properly. The best temp is about 180 to 190. You want you temp to stay constant, that is why you should be using a themostat.

[mike knight]

forgot to mention i am running a thermo fan with on at 160. i also have an override switch. additionally i am running an electric water pump which provides constant flow from idle up as well as after the engine is shutdown i can run the pump and fan to cool down more rapidly if need be (purely precautionary)

[427SnakeSC]

Sounds like a good system, but I don't think it is good for the rings if the motor runs cooler than 180. Maybe someone else here, on the forum can advise you on that.

[mike knight]

thanks guys. i'm still not sure if my operating temps are safe. i have found a pusher fan from perma cool that is rated at 2750 cfm that will fit, not expensive either. i'll post any improvements and changes.

mike

[wtm442]

Use a thermostat. Without a thermostat, the water can run thru the radiator too quickly to remove enough heat ... so the engine runs hotter. Use somewhere between 180 and 195 ºF thermostat at all times. Using a thermostat will also speed up the time it takes to get to operating temp.

Engine oil temp and water temp should be equal when moving (80 to 90 ºC)

I assume that your gauges are accurate?????

[double ugly]

Originally Posted by mike knight

no thermostat. temp comes up really slow but climbs to 105c then seems to stay there.double you live in hell (june/july). what are your high numbers when the evening temps drop down to 90f.
thanks.

I haven't had the car out this summer. Just got the car back from paint and am re-assembling. It ran 90C with oil at 80C. Ambient temps in the low 90s. It's a big block with oil cooler, two pushers and one puller fan.
John

[55312]

Use a good quality 180 degree thermostat. My 427 runs at ~ 185 all day long and never goes above 200 in traffic. Heat kills engines!

Tim

[mike knight]

wtm, interesting about the no thermostat. i'll pop one in there and let you know. as far as the guages are concerned i am using smiths which came with the spf. the fast engine management system reports engine temp as well and the two are within a couple of degrees. the fuel pressure is spot on. i had to disconnect the oil pressure gauge as it is mechanical and came loose from the sender. it started a small fire while on the dyno. i have since ordered an electronic gauge set by autometer.

[Zoom This]

Well, the only thing I can add over and above what has been mentioned, is timing. 20/36 seems pretty high for a turbo motor, especially at boost. This may attribute to temps. If nothing is working, even after a thermostat addition, drop the timing 4 degrees.

[mike knight]

we will try the advance at 34 and see if that helps. the recommendation from fast, precision turbo and the dyno guru says timing up to 36d. no reason to run it at max recommended. thanks i'll keep posting. incidentally just a note about timing. i am using an msd distributor recommended for this engine. we ran it on the dyno and everything was great. i got about 5 miles and the tune went to sh**. i got home barely and opened the hood. you talk about hot. let it cool down and started the engine and watched he distributor spin about 6d. put the light on it and the laptop both are reading less than 10d. the distributor shaft was bottoming out. even though the distributor was the correct model the shaft was 60 thousandth too long. a friend has a precision machine shop and he made up several shims for me. the only other choice was to remove that 60ths from the distributor shaft. all of this work is not an easy undertaking for the average joe just looking to have fun with a high performance home built. you know if we spent the right amount of time thanking everyone for their time and help we wouldn't have any time left for driving these addictions.

thanks again


mike k.

[FUNFER2]

Yes I agree, run a thermostat, try a 180 first. Buy a high cfm puller, I have the flex-a-lite black magic 150 and incorporates a shroud, very important. My temps when down 20 deg.'s. Also, antifreeze will not help cooling. Add something like "water wetter" for lubrication. Check your timing also. Your temp should not go over say, 210 in traffic, on a hot day, if everything is working properly.

[JBCOBRA]

Timing seems to be making a big difference on my car...........especially with the ethanol in the gas now.......at least in my area. So I backed off to 30 degrees, from 32, which my builder initially recommended. Then he called me and told me to back it off to 30.
With octane booster and whatknot I can turn it back up no problem, but with the lousy gas in my area............
30 miles from me I can still get 94 ultra, but my local stations only carry 93 now with ethanol.

[CHANMADD]

Hi .to try to obtain any decent constant safe temps to be running without a thermostat is engine suicide. the best advice is put a thermostat in and stop all the concern about the other stuff,thats tuning

[TerrysSPF]

Has anyone tried any of the "Super Coolants" on the market? I bought some "Water Wetter" from Red Line which claims your car will run "up to" 30 deg cooler. I put it in my Jeep and didn't noticed much of a difference. I was going to put it in my SPF but never got around to it. -I was more interested in their claims about it being an "excellent corrosion / erosion protector" than I was in lowering my cars temps (temps have always been fine). Royal Purple makes one as well.

Has anybody tried this stuff? If so, what were the results??

[Zoom This]

I tried water wetter since antifreeze was not allowed on the track. I also added Prestone anti-rust for use as a lubricant since I was unsure if Water Wetter was a lubricant. I noticed a slight decrease in water temps.

[Power Surge]

Wait a minute... you're running 36 degrees of total timing on a turbo small block Ford? Something is not right there. That's a lot of timing, even for a natural motor. Unless you're running 120 octane on that thing, there's no way you can be running that kind of timing. You'd kill a head gasket in a hurry (among other things). Even 20 degrees of total advance is pushing it on pump gas with a turbo. Hell, I ran 24 degrees total advance on 118 octane on my 1000hp turbo Lightning, and mod motors have WAY better head sealing than SBFs do. Typical SBF turbo timing is in the 14-18 degree total advance area for pump gas.