radiator replacement quandary

[undy]

I'm getting ready to do my Taurus cooling fan install in the next week or so. I'm just not 100% sure that's the only cooling inadequacy I have. LSCs have a relatively small radiator, compared to other Cobras (22 x 19 actual size). That being said, I've always thought of the car as coming up a little short in the radiator department. I know the Taurus fan's going to help out but I'd like to further improve things while I'm in the neighborhood. The radiator has to come out for the fan install anyway. I'm currently running Griffin's dual 1 1/4" tubes "600 HP" rated radiator. I'm at the rated max HP now so I've a bit of concern being at the outer boundary of the radiator's limitations. The Griffin has served well for 9 years or so. The radiator had boiled over several times with the last engine so I'm sure there's some deposits plated on the inner tube walls, possibly hindering heat transfer. Griffin makes the same radiator, 22 x 19, with dual 1 1/2" tubes vs the 1 1/4", with a rating of "600-800 HP". It's of course 1/2" thicker so I'll have to do some mount modifications and remake my inlet shrouding but I think I can make it fit. The Taurus fan should handle the duty of sucking air through that thick 3 1/2" tube pack. Summit has it for $423. I think it would be worth the cost and effort. Tell me what y'all think...

On a similar subject tell me what thermostat mfr and temp rating you prefer along with any reasoning behind the preferences.

Dave

[elmariachi]

Dave,

I am very happy with this fan, it has not let the car get over 90C yet, and that includes sitting at an offramp for 5 minutes in traffic at 95F, after having pounded the big 427 pretty hard on the Interstate. If I were going to put a different radiator in my car, it would be that Fluidyne Cobra model. There are a couple on FleaBay for $499 with free shipping. One of them has a Best Offer feature and I sent in a $400 lowball and they countered at $480.

As you know from the overheating thread, I tried a bunch of fancy t-stats and would up back with the NAPA OEM replacement 180* model with 4 1/8" holes. My car runs solid at 85C/185F down the road and hangs around 85-90C at idle and running around town.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jim

[kitcarbp]

Dave, I would install the Taurus fan first and re-check temps. Near 4,000 cfm's through the core will help. And then have your existing Griffin rad cleaned if you suspect restrictions. I would call Griffin to see if they would service the rad instead of relying on a local shop who may not have the skills. Remember these rads are rated to cool at the engines max engine power, not sure if yours is a track or street car but you spend so little time at max power if its street car, existing rad should be OK if not clogged. BTW, you want to go wider first if you can before you go thicker on the rad core. I just had a custom rad built by Griffin and fit a 16 x 26 core size with narrow tanks about 2.25" wide each using 1.25" wide tubes. my 2 cents. T-stats- boy I noticed the quality varies. I also liked the OEM FORD T-stats that use stainless components and use a steel ball check valve to allow air to bleed out. I purchased a STEWART 180 with air bleed holes already included that seems well built (Robert Shaw mfg).
Remember it only indicates temp the therm opens, not what temp engine runs at. Engine temps will depend on Ambient temps and load but 190-200 F engine temps in the 90's is good. As ambients climb to 100 and 105F you should see 210-215 F engine temps as normal. If you can keep engine below 220F (under load driving) in an ambient of 110F in TX, AZ or CA you are in good shape.

[undy]

Hey Jim,

The Fluidyne radiator is too big with top vs side tanks and the inlet/outlet are in the wrong locations for my application. Other than that, a perfect fit The 1 1/2" core Griifin is the same size and shape as the Griffin it replaces so the swap will be easier. I've had good luck with the Griffin unit so I see no reason right now to reinvent the wheel. The extra 1/2" of core thicknes, combined with the fan, should do the trick.

I sure am glad the Taurus fan fixed your woes. It probably alone would take care of mine but I just want to go that extra mile.

Dave

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Dave,

I am very happy with this fan, it has not let the car get over 90C yet, and that includes sitting at an offramp for 5 minutes in traffic at 95F, after having pounded the big 427 pretty hard on the Interstate. If I were going to put a different radiator in my car, it would be that Fluidyne Cobra model. There are a couple on FleaBay for $499 with free shipping. One of them has a Best Offer feature and I sent in a $400 lowball and they countered at $480.

As you know from the overheating thread, I tried a bunch of fancy t-stats and would up back with the NAPA OEM replacement 180* model with 4 1/8" holes. My car runs solid at 85C/185F down the road and hangs around 85-90C at idle and running around town.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jim

[vector1]

i had to replace a radiator from howe racing. the radiator spec'd was rated at 400 hp by them from the info i gave them, i'm putting around 550 through it with an oil/water exchanger. hasn't been a problem yet. i asked if they could make the core tubes bigger and they said too big and it will not flow air, they only offered the one size. current size is either 1" or 1.125". i know griffin will make a larger core radiator cause i have one from them with the larger tubes. i think your radiator would be sufficient imo.

stewart/robert shaw makes good thermostats it seems.

[undy]

Kit, I need to pull the radiator to do the fan swap so it make sense to do it all at once. I'm more time than money challenged anyway, at least when it comes to 400 bucks. I really would like the thicker radiator core above having mine refurbished/cleaned/rodded and possibly having to deal with it again. There's a correlation between max capacity and the radiator's ability to adequately cool at an idle, I'm hoping the fan CFM being the controlling factor in my case. The radiator's location in the LSC is right between the frame rails so going wider is not an option. The only growth I can tolerate is radiator width.

Dave

Originally Posted by kitcarbp

Dave, I would install the Taurus fan first and re-check temps. Near 4,000 cfm's through the core will help. And then have your existing Griffin rad cleaned if you suspect restrictions. I would call Griffin to see if they would service the rad instead of relying on a local shop who may not have the skills. Remember these rads are rated to cool at the engines max engine power, not sure if yours is a track or street car but you spend so little time at max power if its street car, existing rad should be OK if not clogged. BTW, you want to go wider first if you can before you go thicker on the rad core. I just had a custom rad built by Griffin and fit a 16 x 26 core size with narrow tanks about 2.25" wide each using 1.25" wide tubes. my 2 cents.

[undy]

I was looking the other day at the OEM radiator in my 07 Z06 and the tube/fin spacing is muck tighter than on the Griffin in the Cobra. With that said, I think with the "loose" fins and tube spacing the new Taurus fan should pull more than enough air through the core (hopefully). Of course, the proof will be in the pudding. For a "racing" radiator, per say, the HP rating is the most important factor for capacity rating since most "real" race cars never idle for prolonged times like our street driven Cobras do.

Dave

Originally Posted by vector1

i had to replace a radiator from howe racing. the radiator spec'd was rated at 400 hp by them from the info i gave them, i'm putting around 550 through it with an oil/water exchanger. hasn't been a problem yet. i asked if they could make the core tubes bigger and they said too big and it will not flow air, they only offered the one size. current size is either 1" or 1.125". i know griffin will make a larger core radiator cause i have one from them with the larger tubes. i think your radiator would be sufficient imo.

stewart/robert shaw makes good thermostats it seems.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by undy

I've had good luck with the Griffin unit so I see no reason right now to reinvent the wheel. The extra 1/2" of core thicknes, combined with the fan, should do the trick.

Ah, yes, now I remember how the LSC is configured. That Griffin sounds like the right one, and you'll surely have no issues coupled with that fan and its shroud. I still have my low speed on a 185F electric t-stat and the high speed is on a dash switch. I think I will stick with that setup, I like being able to throw the high on before I head into traffic as opposed to waiting for temps to climb and then have it come on. But honestly, I think I could get by without the high speed and never get above 90-92C.

Please post pics when you are done.

[Garage10]

Hi elmariachi
When you installed your Taurus fan how did you mount it to rad ? Did you seal it to rad or is there gaps ? I put mine on with 1/2" thick weather stripping around it ot completely seal it to rad and used the DC control fan controller and it doesn't seem to pull all that well. I'm not sure if blades are too far from rad due to stripping or if controller isn't giving fan full amps. Anyway, any info appreciated. Thanks
Brent

[SantaFe66]

I have a similar problem. My radiator is an aluminum Modine Racing model (not sure "racing" is a plus since I don't). The core is 20"W x 16"Tall and 4" thick with 4 rows of 1/2" tubes. I didn't measure the tanks on both sides. I bought the Taurus fan and it's shroud is 22 x 17. Not going to fit unless I trim it a bunch, or just overlap on each side in the tank areas. Another solution would be to have another shroud made by a sheet metal shop that would cover the tanks and core if I can figure a way to mount it.

I have a roll bar that is about a third of the way up from the bottom of the rad. on the inside so I have to work around that.

I have no room in my car for a wider/taller radiator so I'm going to have to get the Taurus to work.

I already upgraded my stock water pump with an E'brock, fitted 1:1 pulleys, and will install a 170 stat and the wiring kit and sensors from the same guy elmariachi used, The Hollister Road Co.

Hopefully, that will solve my problem. I'm throwing a lot of mods to this problem at one shot but with the great info that elmariachi documented with his problem, I think it will work. We'll see.

By the way, you can have your radiator flow tested easily after you get it out, at any good radiator shop. Takes a few minutes and shouldn't cost anything if they're a friendly shop. Not sure I trust horsepower ratings on radiator capacity since there are so many variables. Street-driven Cobra's are way different than race cars and have more challenging cooling issues.

Good luck with your solution.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Garage10

Hi elmariachi
When you installed your Taurus fan how did you mount it to rad ? Did you seal it to rad or is there gaps ? I put mine on with 1/2" thick weather stripping around it ot completely seal it to rad and used the DC control fan controller and it doesn't seem to pull all that well. I'm not sure if blades are too far from rad due to stripping or if controller isn't giving fan full amps. Anyway, any info appreciated. Thanks
Brent

As we talked about before, I don't think you're getting full voltage from that controller. Not knowing the specific wiring, why don't you run a temporary #8 copper wire from the alternator's output to a the fan's motor leads that are downstream from your DC controller. When the engines fully hot and the fan's pumping as much air as it can simply bypass the DC controller and put a full 13.xx/14.xx volts directly to the high speed on the fan motor. If it picks up and moves more air you've discoverd your problem. Have you actually measure operating volts at the fan while it was running at max? Just curious ... You can stick a small push-pin/needle thru the hi speed hot wire and measure your voltage from there.

Dave

[undy]

You've got a small radiator too, about the same surface area as mine. ( I've been told before that it's not how big your radiator is, it's how you cool with it....) Your core is actually about an inch wider than mine is so making your fit should not be a problem. My current "Black Max" Flexalite fan shroud is nearly the same size as my new Taurus unit. Just enclose half the right side and half of the left side tanks, as well as the core. Trim the shroud around your radiator inlet and outlet, as I did. I used push-on automotive weather stripping around those trimmed shroud radiator outlets to give them a better seal to minimize the fan sucking air through the gaps. I made some aluminum sheetmetal tabs to secure the shroud to the radiator. Pre-installing everything on the out-of-car radiator and installing everything in the car as an assembly made it much prettier and easier too. I did some decorative aluminum work up top to give it a kind of "OEM" look ... if there is such a thing.

Originally Posted by SantaFe66

I have a similar problem. My radiator is an aluminum Modine Racing model (not sure "racing" is a plus since I don't). The core is 20"W x 16"Tall and 4" thick with 4 rows of 1/2" tubes. I didn't measure the tanks on both sides. I bought the Taurus fan and it's shroud is 22 x 17. Not going to fit unless I trim it a bunch, or just overlap on each side in the tank areas. Another solution would be to have another shroud made by a sheet metal shop that would cover the tanks and core if I can figure a way to mount it.

I have a roll bar that is about a third of the way up from the bottom of the rad. on the inside so I have to work around that.

I have no room in my car for a wider/taller radiator so I'm going to have to get the Taurus to work.

I already upgraded my stock water pump with an E'brock, fitted 1:1 pulleys, and will install a 170 stat and the wiring kit and sensors from the same guy elmariachi used, The Hollister Road Co.

Hopefully, that will solve my problem. I'm throwing a lot of mods to this problem at one shot but with the great info that elmariachi documented with his problem, I think it will work. We'll see.

By the way, you can have your radiator flow tested easily after you get it out, at any good radiator shop. Takes a few minutes and shouldn't cost anything if they're a friendly shop. Not sure I trust horsepower ratings on radiator capacity since there are so many variables. Street-driven Cobra's are way different than race cars and have more challenging cooling issues.

Good luck with your solution.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Garage10

Hi elmariachiWhen you installed your Taurus fan how did you mount it to rad ? Did you seal it to rad or is there gaps ? I put mine on with 1/2" thick weather stripping around it ot completely seal it to rad and used the DC control fan controller and it doesn't seem to pull all that well. I'm not sure if blades are too far from rad due to stripping or if controller isn't giving fan full amps. Anyway, any info appreciated. Thanks
Brent

The Taurus fan is flat against the back of the radiator. Its still temporarily mounted using 4 flat aluminum tabs bolted through the top and bottom radiator crossbraces, which is how Hurricane mounted the original fan. I agree with Dave that your issue is probably that controller. I am using the Hollister Road relay harness, taking 12V+ directly from the starter lug and sufficient amperage is not an issue.



As I have said before, I don't think the solution to my problem was so much cfm airflow as the shroud helping to cool the entire surface of the radiator. Before the Taurus fan I had hot spots in the outer corners on the face of the radiator over 210*F. They are much smaller and only around 200F now. And in the area inside where the shroud perimeter is, my front face temps are 160-185F.

[elmariachi]

And let me add that I am confident that once I remove my fan and trim the uneven sides of shroud a bit, it will sit more flush and draw even more air. I also plan on dressing up the top sill flashing a bit to make it look more natural, but that's a December project for when the Houston daytime temps drop below 90F.

[Garage10]

Hi Undy
No I havn't measured my voltage to fan yet. I will have to get cord for fluke meter first. It sure doesn't sound all that loud or seem to pull very hard like the video I have seen of this fan. Darn controller is probably holding it back.
El
When your fan is on full blast is it quite loud ? How far away from front of rad does it pull a sheet of paper to rad ?
Thanks
Brent