Whats the difference in quality?

[greasemonkey]

Im a new member and would like some input from you guys/girls. Im considering buying a ffr 427 and would like to know why a superformance demands a higher resale price. Is it the donor aspect for the ffr being worth less in the end? Whats the opinion on the square vs round chassis main tubes? Does the superformance look better and generally have a better fit and finish than the ffr 427? Is the superformance a better kit therefore costs more or is it just that the ffr comes in a million pieces?
Thanks for any help.

[computerworks]

Good question, monk.
It's very tough to compare the two on the surface (FFR and SPF), even though they both end up as Cobra replicas. But, I'll address your resale value question.

FFR is designed as a donor-based kit, sold in bare form, for about $11K. Many actually spend $14-15k with options. Many are completed with donor parts from a 5.0L EFI Mustang. The FFR frame design is good and the overall finished product is strictly a function of the builder. Nicely finished cars sell in the $25-35K range, with a wide variation based on the quality of the finished product

SPF is a factory-built CAR known as a turn-key-minus, which means a finished, painted vehicle without drive train, built by technicians on an assembly line. (I wouldn't call it a kit). I'm told they sell in their "bare" form for $35k. Most buyers opt for a professional installation of drivetrain with new (not donor) parts, often a 351 plain or stroked, adding $10-15K to the cost of the car. ...Being factory-built, there is far more uniformity in quality. That, plus the much higher acquisition cost yields the higher average resale.

NICE JOB RON. I SURE CAN'T ADD MUCH TO THAT.

BASICALLY, MONK, THE MORE YOU INVEST IN THE "COMPLETE AND FINISHED" CAR - THE MORE IT'S GOING TO BE WORTH WHEN IT'S COMPLETE & FINISHED. THE "INVESTMENT" IS GOING TO BE IN SOME COMBINATION OF TIME AND MONEY.

RON'S DESCRIPTION IS EXCELLENT.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[Cal Metal]

I had the pleasure of running into Ron Davely and his wife at the SPF tent at Elkhart Lake. They had a number of cars on display plus a trailer with a SPF on a lift so one could see the underside. The uniformity of the cars, particularly of the paint, is really superb. I am a little too adventurous to want to buy a 'turn key minus', especially given that Unique builds a hassle free rolling chassis kit, but if I were so inclined, the SPF would be a no brainer. The trouble with the FFR is that the quality of builds are all over the place and it would take, in my mind anyway, an outstanding builder to make one of them begin to approximate the level of finish found on a SPF. They are simply addressing two different markets. You get what you pay for.

[Chad Johnson]

First, check out the web sites for the for the two companies http://www.factoryfive.com/ http://www.superformance.com/index.html.

This should give you a good idea of the quality of the components used in both cars. Then, I would suggest that you try to go to a couple of cobra get togethers to check the different manufacturers and build quality in side by side comparison.

There are some ultra nice FF and other car kits out there, but the builder's of those cars probably have as much invested in them (if not in cash, then sweat equity) as you might spend on a Superformance. Plus, those folks are craftsmen with very complete garages and tools.

Pay your money and take your choice

[greasemonkey]

I havent seen either make in the flesh so to speak but Ill make a point of it before buying. Seeing as Im Canadian and paying 36K US equals 55K in my dollars I think the FFR is the route for me. Ive done car restorations before and have the shop to build it in. One thing Im considering is going the 427 or 428 route. How much of an affect (price wise) does that have on a car that isnt the real thing to begin with. Is it worth it? I know I wont keep the car forever so resale value does mean something to me.
Thanks for the input, Paul.

[Cal Metal]

I think you might want to investigate manufacturers that fall in between these two companies, particularly if the SPF is out of your price range. It isn't necessarily an 'either or' situation (ffr v. SPF). There are some good companies in the middle of the range you ought to consider, as well.

[wadesdad]

TO: Greasemonkey

I was recently in your shoes.

I would recommend you arrange a visit to A&C in Buffalo, NY. It's not far from Toronto and will give you a little more information before you cough up your hard earned Canadian dollars.

They offer a wide range of completeness in their kits. Options I found attractive were the- 9" Ford rear end with posi, 4 wheel, 5 lug disc brakes. I also fell in love with their gel-coat body. It ships to you FLAWLESS with your choice of (non-metallic) colors built into the body. Their hoods, trunks, and doors are also fully lined and have a clean, nice look. Their suspension has a rugged look etc............... I interviewed and met with several other buyers before deciding on this company.

Sonny, the VP of Sales can be a little bit New York city-like, but he is honest. Its your money do the homework, and decide what works for you.

FYI -

http://www.acautos.com/


ALSO SEE Roscoe's build-up page. The black you see is the gel coat I mentioned - untouched from the factory, just the way it ships.

http://www.priveye.com/cobra.htm

And good luck!

[btsai]

Greasemonkey -- I'd think twice about putting a 427 or 428 into an FFR. I know guys that have even put in 460's, but they're all a tight squeeze and don't help the handling. Since you're not going for ultimate accuracy, a small block (302 or 351 based) will be a lot less expensive and you can make a lot of power with them. There are several incredibly fast 351 stroker FFR cars out there... (SPF's too, for that matter...)

Just my opinion.

Ben

[greasemonkey]

Guess Ill do some more homework. Havent heard of a&c but Ill certianly look into it. Ive heard alot about ffr and spf so thats why I was leaning that way. Just didnt know all my options. Thanks for educating me. One other engine option I was considering was a 32v 4.6 cobra engine. I have access to written-off mustangs at reasonable prices. Ill have to source out the fox body components from another car if I go that route but the thought of a high tech 32v all aluminum v8 does interest me. FFR mentioned one of thier customers did this modification but didnt say much more about it. Thanks again guys.
Paul.

[btsai]

Paul -- the 32V engine was recently discussed on the cobraforum.com. As I recall, the person who did it said he had to make a lot of modifications, and when asked if he would do it again -- his answer was a definite "no".

[Roscoe]

Greasemonkey,

I would take a peek at the A&C. I just finished mine and I can tell you that the body is just superb. I don't plan on painting it for a year or two but it certainly looks like it's painted already. I've got about 35k into it but I could have done it for a lot less. My build site is http://www.priveye.com/cobra.htm.



Roscoe

[greasemonkey]

Thanks Roscoe, I went to the a&c site yesterday and the only thing that I dislike about their version is the mostly fibreglass construction, mainly the floors and trunk for example. Does this not make the body a stressed component more so than SPF or FFR's version? I would like to avoid that type of construction. Your car looks great and I like the idea of the colour right in the gelcoat. I havent made up my mind yet but Im still leaning towards the FFR because of price and I want to assemble it myself. Hope nobody took offense on the fibreglass issue but thats just my prefrence.
Paul.

[Brad Pfeifer]

Greasemonkey,

One subject that did not come up thus far in your research on FFR vs. SPF is the exchange rate.

SPF cars are built in South Africa, because overhead costs are less, the per item costs are considerably less. Coupled with a dollar-strong exchange rate, what you get would cost twice as much if built in the US. Even with the cost of container shipping, they are an incredible value for the money.

Brad

[Cal Metal]

Brad:

The magic of a government subsidy.

[2fast]

The fit and finish of most kits seems to be primarily determined by the workmanship of the builder, YMMV. The FFR is for people with more time than money, and the SPF for those with more money than time. I don't have enough of either, so the FFR is taking me longer than most to complete.

The donor aspect of the FFR allows building a FFR for a relatively low cost, and this does seem to affect their completed value. HOWEVER, the donor aspect of the FFR does not require that you use ANY used parts, it just means that you don't have to chase around looking for Chevette steering columns, Subaru steering racks, Mustang II front end parts, Jaguar rear ends, or any of the other parts that some of the "non donor" kits require.

A couple of points that I considered important:

1. Is IRS an option? Some kits, like A&C and B&B, don't mention IRS on their web sites. I wanted the IRS for handling and ride comfort, and I prefer the Tbird based IRS used on the FFR and SPF over the Jag IRS.

2. How valuable is a gel coat body if you plan on painting it anyway? I prefer to pay less and do the bodywork and paint myself.

[greasemonkey]

I never took that into consideration. I see the prices for them in US dollars only and pretty much rule it out. There is a SPF dealer 45 min from me but I havent bothered to check it out. That may not be the route to go but Ill check out the other option you suggested.. Thanks .Paul.

[Jim Colman]

greasemonkey,
Don't discard the notion of a fiberglass inner liner or "tub" for your replica. This type of construction makes the car quite stiff and stable. It does add weight, however the car still weights much less than a traditional vehicle. My ten year old Midstates replica had many thousands of miles on it, including several "un-scheduled" trips off the race track. The car held up extremely well and the body looked just a good as the day it was first built. Fiberglass is also a better heat insulator than aluminum. Your feet will appreciate it.

Cheers
Jim

[Snakecharmer]

Hey GM,

I agree with these posts. Let me qualify my opinion by saying that I will soon be an SPF owner. I, too was facinated by FFR and was considering them, along with LoneStar and SPF.

Besides personal preference, the main difference is new components vs. old components. The old components are sometime almost brand new depending on the donor. Although the donor parts are more than stong enough for most driving styles, they aren't quite the same as the high performance parts used by SPF.

I looked into using just the FFR frame, body, and interior and adding all new suspension and drivetrain components.

The result, if you were an experienced builder and an exceptional painter, would be amazingly close to SPF in both cost and appearance.

Good luck choosing!

Charmer

[greasemonkey]

I spoke with a person at a superformance dealer not far from me and they want $57,000 canadian less drivetrain plus taxes which adds another 15% on the price for the tax alone. The FFR I was planning on getting would have the trigo knock offs with IRS without using any mustang control arms with coil overs. When its finished, I figured $32,000 CDN is what Ill have in it. Taking that into consideration, I question the value of a SPF. What makes the SPF worth so much more excluding the fact they assemble it for you because it still doesnt add up from what I can see. Educate me more. The SPF is $37k US and the csx 4000 is $44k in a similar state of assembly. Why not get something that could be considered the real thing because of the stamp of approval? Would that not be the ultimate "replica" that would only increase in value or at the very least hold its value? Im sure the SPF is outstanding but is it worth that much more, really?