What engine oil to put in my SBF

[Caprimaniac]

Hello everyone.

Searched thorugh the forum for find specific threads on this, but nothing came up... Can YOU find it? (Oh no it comes back to me... I used one of the threads in the Weber forum to chat about my oiling problems? Or do I remember wrong?)

Anyway; here's what I'm gonna let you people help me decide:

World Products suggest you use a rather thick engine oil for their ManOwar blocks, which I'm running. 20W-50 is on their list.

As I used 5W-50 motorsport last season and experience quite low oil pressure hot & idling and 0 oil pressure in 360 deg turns, I was going to change to 20-50.

Thing is: You only find 20W-50 mineral oil? Have not been able to find any synthetic or blend.
Mind you; I'm in Norway- not the US or central Europe...

We have Shell, Mobil, Agip, Castrol, Valvoline, Comma and a few other brands here.

So, should I go with a 20W-50 mineral or what?

I have found some reference to, I think it was Mobil 25W-50 Motorsport oil... Anyone familiar with this?

Racing season is here now, and I'm installing an accusump, a gear oil pump/cooler in addition to new roll cage, new seats, new harness and a new brake- box with proportioning mechanism and front/ rear mastercylinders.

I'm excited!

- And still am. Now I also wonder; all these suggestions to purchase a road-race oil pan (& pick-up): will any of the suggested pans clear a 347 H-rod stroker with 4- bolt mains on all 5 (use a World aluminium block)?-

Happy springtime, everyone.

RuneS

[Tony Radford]

Personally, I order Amsoil over the Internet. I use their 15W50 racing series due to the high content of lubricants as I'm running a solid flat tappet cam. Off the shelf organic oils seem to lack sufficient lubricants due to EPA regulations. If you're running a solid cam, I think a specialty oil is a good course to take. I'm told you need 3K or more miles on your engine before you convert to synthetic or you may have break-in problems.

[cdnus]

you seem to be missing 2 important item on your list of new parts, that is a new oil pan & P/U.
0-psi oil pressure in turns is unacceptable & will kill a motor in a heartbeat.

JMO

Craig

[Tom Wells]

Craig,

I noticed the same thing. Then I went back and read he is adding an Accusump.

Having been there, done that (zero oil pressure in turns with a Canton "road race ha ha ha pan") I opted for an Accusump made by guess who? Canton. What a coincidence. The good news is that it works!

He should be fine.

RuneS,

I've used Castrol 20W-50 mineral oil for 26,000 miles of mixed street and track use. The engine is fine. I do change it and the FL-1HP filter before every track session.

Tom

[bobcowan]

Engine oil is always a hot button topic. Lot's of myths, lots of experiance, and very little science. So, here's my opinion.

I use a pure synthetic. Not so much for the longevity, because I change it 2-3 times a year. But because of it's high heat capacity. A true synthetic can easily handle 240* without break down. I like that. Some days on the track that oil gets pretty hot, despite the cooler.

A true synthetic starts with a PAO base stock, no dino oil. Mobile 1 is NOT a true synthetic. it's not a bad oil, but not a synthetic.

If it were my engine, this is what I'd use: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RPO-01250/

[Caprimaniac]

Craig; we are talking 360 degree turns in the highest possible cornering speed in the shortest possible radius. And the pan is baffled & trapdoored.

Bobcowan has a point on the temperature VS brake down.

We have royal purple here, but the cost is not 7.95 for 1 quart, but 27.82$ So, it's an very expensive oil. I'll consider it...

What about DynoCat oils? New brand over here. US brand, as I understand.

They have something called Fusion RXS 15W-50; synthetic.. "For high performance & racing engines...."

And Supreme Classic GTR 20W-50. This one is mineral. And they state: "...for extreme load and high temperatures... Also for racing applications where a higher viscousity is needed."

Do they say that this mineral oil takes higher temperature (than their synthetic alternative) before the oil film brakes down?

I consider DynoCat because they are situated close to me, are reasonably priced & give great discounts. And why not go Tom's way and use mineral...?

(I'll go to Canton roadrace pan & pickup next year, if it all stays together.)

RS

[PoppyMod]

Originally Posted by Caprimaniac

Hello everyone.

Searched thorugh the forum for find specific threads on this, but nothing came up... Can YOU find it? (Oh no it comes back to me... I used one of the threads in the Weber forum to chat about my oiling problems? Or do I remember wrong?)

Anyway; here's what I'm gonna let you people help me decide:

World Products suggest you use a rather thick engine oil for their ManOwar blocks, which I'm running. 20W-50 is on their list.

As I used 5W-50 motorsport last season and experience quite low oil pressure hot & idling and 0 oil pressure in 360 deg turns, I was going to change to 20-50.

Thing is: You only find 20W-50 mineral oil? Have not been able to find any synthetic or blend.
Mind you; I'm in Norway- not the US or central Europe...

We have Shell, Mobil, Agip, Castrol, Valvoline, Comma and a few other brands here.

So, should I go with a 20W-50 mineral or what?

I have found some reference to, I think it was Mobil 25W-50 Motorsport oil... Anyone familiar with this?

Racing season is here now, and I'm installing an accusump, a gear oil pump/cooler in addition to new roll cage, new seats, new harness and a new brake- box with proportioning mechanism and front/ rear mastercylinders.

I'm excited!

Happy springtime, everyone.

RuneS

Hi,

Personally, I use 10W-40W GTX. I feel the real key is how your engine is used and how often you change the oil. Most all of my vehicles have gone well over the 100K mark with petroleum based oils. I subscribe to the sever duty cycle or every 3K miles, or so with changes before and after winter storage.
I have nothing against the use of synthetic, I just feel it's a matter of recognizing your engine's needs and doing the right maintenance.
PlaySafe!

[JCoop]

FWIW, I've put LobroMoly 0W40 and a some ZDPP additive on my SB 302 as well as the BB 460. It's Euro-spec. I love it. Then again, I DO have an Accusump as well. Here's the thread on it...

Lubro Moly Full Synthetic Oils

[madmaxx]

Mobil 1 makes a 15W50 fully synthetic at Walmart for $23.50 / 5 quart jug. Has the extra zinc and phosphorous. Made for exactly what you are doing

[wfbronson]

I recommend the original furmula Kendal Racing Oil that is available only from specialty racing suppliers. It is not available on the shelf of your typical retail auto parts store.

Recently had an amazing experience to prove the value of this stuff. Five years ago I had put this oil in my rebuilt side oiler and pumped the oil through the engine by turning the oil pump drive with an electric drill. This was done with the anticipation that I would not be able to use the motor for a few years, so I sealed it in a crate and stored it in my garage.

Last month I decided to uncrate it, change the oil and circulate it before going any further. I bought some oil from my local auto supplier and proceded to remove the valve covers and inspect the condition of things. When I saw the incredible clean condition and this Kendal oil still sticking to all the parts, I kept the same oil in the motor and just changed the filter and pumped the oil through again. I refused to put any of this new low quality oil in my side oiler until I could find the original stuff.

Here are some comments I found from Schneider Cams during my research.

To our valued customers:
As many of you already know, there have been dramatic increases in flat tappet camshaft failures over the past few years. According to our research, this is due mostly to recent changes in motor oil formulas. Current strict emissions standards have pushed the oil companies to pull zinc, phosphorus, and other high pressure lubricants (ZDDP) out of the oils. The fact that most, if not all, late model motors are factory-equipped with roller tappet cams allowed the change. This has become so problematic for the flat-tappet world that Hotrod Magazine published an article on the subject [When Good Cams Go Bad, June 2006]. The life of a flat tappet camshaft depends on proper lubrication. Inferior oil formulas put your camshaft and motor at risk!

Brad Penn Racing Oil:

Schneider Cams proudly recommends Brad Penn Racing oil. This is Kendal’s original formula – it’s still green and is still the best. Brad Penn Racing oil is full of the ZDDP your flat tappet cams crave, and it won’t let you down! Check them out online for the full scoop: www.bradpennracing.com

Hope this helps.

[PANAVIA]

New Windsor - 10W-40 Castrol , or Chevron 15W-40 Delo 400.

Beat down windsor 20-50 Castrol.

NEW FE 10W40 Castrol.
Old FE 75% 10w40 25% 20-50W

[WarrenG]

My engine builder recommended Shell Rotella T 15W - 40 when I bought the engine (1965-289 stroked to 331) and still recommends it. I've 8600 trouble free miles on it so far, all street though, no racing.

[Tom Wells]

Rune,

Don't know anything about small blocks. Having said that:

On my 460 there's a tapped hole just above the mechanical fuel pump location on the front driver's side of the block. This hole leads to the output side (gallery) of the oil pump, so that's where I put mine.

Also on the 460, there's another place on the top rear center of the block where the oil pressure gauge fits. Some have used that spot and report it works, too, although I've not personally seen it done.

As a third option, if you have a remote filter and/or an oil cooler, Canton has a schematic for you to use to tee into that line.

Finally, there's another option, also I think from Canton, to put an adapter between the filter and the block to accept the output of the Accusump.

I don't know of anyone using the check valve. Maybe someone else can contribute some experience.

A very big caution: don't install the Accusump piping incorrectly! It's easy to overthink this and plumb it in backwards, resulting in no oil pressure.

Hope this helps,

Tom

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Caprimaniac

We have royal purple here, but the cost is not 7.95 for 1 quart, but 27.82$ So, it's an very expensive oil. I'll consider it...

RS

How much?????? I smell a business oppurtunity. Anybody want to buy some bootleg RP?

Originally Posted by Caprimaniac

Thanks, Tom.

Nice to know the (Canton) Accusump works. What I'm considering now is if I should plumb it to the rear or the front of the engine; does it matter??? (The World block have aol- gallery plugs at more than one location in the block).

Rune

With most blocks it's difficult to plumb it to the back of the engine. It can be done, though. The front of the engine (where the pump is) will lose pressure before the rear will. Then the Accusump will force oil into the system, but in reverse order. Like a wave it will try to fight any incoming oil from the pump.

If you have no other external oiling systems (cooler, remote filter), then you should put a sandwich adapter between the filter and the block. It should have one hole for the resevoir feed. That's the easiest and most reliable way to do it.

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Rune,

Don't know anything about small blocks. Having said that:

On my 460 there's a tapped hole just above the mechanical fuel pump location on the front driver's side of the block. This hole leads to the output side (gallery) of the oil pump, so that's where I put mine.

I k now very little about big blocks. But on the windsor engine, that hole is for the oil pressure gauge. It's only 1/4" NPT. Not nearly big enough for a resevoir feed. That port should be at least 1/2" NPT, fed by a -10 or -12 line.

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Also on the 460, there's another place on the top rear center of the block where the oil pressure gauge fits. Some have used that spot and report it works, too, although I've not personally seen it done.

The small block doesn't have this port

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

I don't know of anyone using the check valve. Maybe someone else can contribute some experience.

A very big caution: don't install the Accusump piping incorrectly! It's easy to overthink this and plumb it in backwards, resulting in no oil pressure.

Hope this helps,

Tom

If you're using the resevoir with anything but the single port block adapter, you'll need the check valve. Otherwise, the oil will follow the path of least resistance, and flow right back to the pan instead of the higher pressure oil galley.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

New Windsor - 10W-40 Castrol , or Chevron 15W-40 Delo 400.

Beat down windsor 20-50 Castrol.

NEW FE 10W40 Castrol.
Old FE 75% 10w40 25% 20-50W

Panavia, I have a 351 Ford Racing Winsor...385hp....that is serviced at the local Ford (Roush) dealership and if I understand the reciept...they use 12 quarts of 20-50 Castrol ($7.78) and a Ford FL-1-HP ($18.67)..the car has been serviced there since new (2008) and now has about 6K miles on it...The car will never see a track and is not driven in anger .. the oil temps will approach 110 for short periods(minutes) of low speed high rpm (5000+) use....until I scare myself...the oil pressure is always around 40-50 and I don't see any leaks under the hood or on the garage floor. Since the oil is only changed every 3000 miles cost is not really a concern..but I don't want to spend money for something I don't need.. ps.. It will use a quart or even 2 between changes...bart

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Panavia, I have a 351 Ford Racing Winsor...385hp....that is serviced at the local Ford (Roush) dealership and if I understand the reciept...they use 12 quarts of 20-50 Castrol ($7.78) and a Ford FL-1-HP ($18.67)..the car has been serviced there since new (2008) and now has about 6K miles on it...The car will never see a track and is not driven in anger .. the oil temps will approach 110 for short periods(minutes) of low speed high rpm (5000+) use....until I scare myself...the oil pressure is always around 40-50 and I don't see any leaks under the hood or on the garage floor. Since the oil is only changed every 3000 miles cost is not really a concern..but I don't want to spend money for something I don't need.. ps.. It will use a quart or even 2 between changes...bart

That's not good. Oil has an operating temp range. It's generally accepted that 180* is minimum operating temp. Much below that, and it's not working the way it's supposed to. Unless we're talking about C*.

Maybe the second statement has something to do with the first. You're using a quart every 1,000-1,500 miles. That's a lot of oil for something used so gently.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

That's not good. Oil has an operating temp range. It's generally accepted that 180* is minimum operating temp. Much below that, and it's not working the way it's supposed to. Unless we're talking about C*.

Maybe the second statement has something to do with the first. You're using a quart every 1,000-1,500 miles. That's a lot of oil for something used so gently.

...Centigrade....it normally runs at 95-100 centigrade...

[PANAVIA]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Panavia, I have a 351 Ford Racing Winsor...385hp....that is serviced at the local Ford (Roush) dealership and if I understand the reciept...they use 12 quarts of 20-50 Castrol ($7.78) and a Ford FL-1-HP ($18.67)..the car has been serviced there since new (2008) and now has about 6K miles on it...The car will never see a track and is not driven in anger .. the oil temps will approach 110 for short periods(minutes) of low speed high rpm (5000+) use....until I scare myself...the oil pressure is always around 40-50 and I don't see any leaks under the hood or on the garage floor. Since the oil is only changed every 3000 miles cost is not really a concern..but I don't want to spend money for something I don't need.. ps.. It will use a quart or even 2 between changes...bart

That sounds like too much oil to me for that setup, and the oil sounds a bit too thick , that oil temp also sounds high, and are you saying you are cruising at 5000?

Should be about 9.5 to 10 qts depending on pan.

With 6000 miles on the clock you should be down to 1 qt per 1000 miles on the ford racing windsors , hopefully less.

Have you done a static and leak-down compression on your cylinders ?

Steve

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

That sounds like too much oil to me for that setup, and the oil sounds a bit too thick , that oil temp also sounds high, and are you saying you are cruising at 5000?

Should be about 9.5 to 10 qts depending on pan.

Steve

Interesting. I also have the 351 Windsor Ford Racing 385 hp engine. Bulletproof. I change the oil once a year. I use Mobil1 0-40. Burns no oil - no need to add anything between changes. Around 60 lbs pressure.

But 7 quarts fills it. Do these engines come with different pans?

Jack

[Bartruff1]

Must...mine takes 12 quarts....Ford (Roush) Dealer just serviced it and used a new(?) Ford synthetic XO 5W50 and a FL-1HP filter...the Mechanic said to monitor the temps and consumption but that he didn"t see any reason to think that anything was wrong...we shall see...runs great...thanks Pan and others...