Change of oil and found metallic spring etc inside - need your advise.

[Jac Mac]

Have you removed the rod bearing caps to inspect the rod bearings yet, oil in the pump rotor means nothing, once the pumpdrive sheared what oil was on pressure side of pump would just stay there.
I dont bet on motors , 'do it once & do it right', my advice , forget about 'Eric' or whomever did the first build & find someone who is conversant with the engine, or at least someone who is prepared to do the research & take the time to learn how to do it right, be prepared to be patient & pay that person a fair amount for his time. looks like you might be needing his services again in the future
The number of 'non compatible' parts & bad engine building practices in the initial build of this motor is just 'bad', no other way to describe it! One other thing, when an oil pressure gauge drops to zero, or a temp gauge ,goes of the clock', It means stop now, right now & find out what the problem is, DO NOT DRIVE HOME thinking what might be the problem. In forty plus years of motoring I have never seen an oil pressure problem get better by doing a few more miles........

Hope I have not spoilt anyone's sensitivities with that piece of wisdom

[andronikos916]

More pics - under the car with the Oil Pan removed. I uploaded the hi-resolution images so you can better see details.

Do you believe (maybe) that because the oil I had inside the engine was 1ich higher than normal that prevent the excessive damage inside the engine (bearings, rods etc)? Or maybe that is the reason why things went bad? Of course I have not opened the engine - so deep yet (trying to avoid it) - to know what else I will find bad / damaged... Just thinking loud now.

http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3882.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3883.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3884.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3885.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3886.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3887.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3888.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3889.JPG
http://www.ixorvfx.com/files/temp/IMG_3890.JPG

Thank you - Andronikos,

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by andronikos916

Do you believe (maybe) that because the oil I had inside the engine was 1ich higher than normal that prevent the excessive damage inside the engine (bearings, rods etc)? Or maybe that is the reason why things went bad? Of course I have not opened the engine - so deep yet (trying to avoid it) - to know what else I will find bad / damaged... Just thinking loud now.


Thank you - Andronikos,

The oil level didn't prevent or cause you any damage.

The only mistake,a BIG one though,was not believing your oil pressure gauge. I believe you learned the lesson.

The root cause of this disaster is the poor quality of workmanship in building this engine.

I'd be real surprised if Eric does anything to help you on this.Not too sure I'd accept it anyway.

[andronikos916]

Ok so how to do it correct this time? How can I feel safe after next rebuilt?

I know gaskets where wrong. The rocker arms should not touch the valve retainer cap. Do I need longer push rods? How to check that? Maybe longer rocker arm studs? What rocker arms to get - what ratio? What about the valve leak? Is this normal? ..you know so many questions. Known the theory is very important for me - since I believe I can apply it with my mechanic.

My mechanic is good - but not experienced with these engines - so basically I think this will be a crazy rebuilt process for me...

Best - Andronikos,

[STL Mark]

You could find a tech that has experience. Basically, the lump needs to be pulled, torn down, and rebuilt properly from the bottom up - without guesswork. OR - maybe be cheaper in your situation - order a new crate engine from Ford - and put the old one on e-bay part by part.

Been there Bud.
Good Luck.

[Curt C.]

To confirm, pull the main cap on second from the rear. Two bolts. The condition of the bearing will speak volumes. Unfortunately, I have to agree with David on all counts based on what we have seen to date.

[Gaz64]

I'm surprised it has only one big end cap discoloured.

I would say EVERY bearing is damaged, and I agree with what others have said, there will way too much damage inside there.

Your "engine builder" doesn't seem to know how to assemble a high performance engine.
The valvetrain is the best example of this, find a real engine builder who understands ALL the clearance checks to perform during the mockup assembly.

[mreid]

Well, I've tried every way I know to save you from a complete rebuild. When you said the crank, rods, and bearings were fine, I cheered thinking you would be okay simply sorting out the valve train. Unfortunately, after seeing these latest pictures, I have to agree with everyone else. This engine is toast. Not just from the burnt bearings, but from the array of mismatched parts. If PE provided this engine, they should be ashamed.

I believe the root cause is the poorly matched valve train components. They were the cause of the earlier poor performance when they were keeping the valves from sealing properly and then when a lifter failed, your oil pump ate a chunk of metal causing it to seize, shearing the drive shaft and causing your oil pressure gauge to go to zero. In the future, you have the gauge for this purpose. First you believe it until it is proven wrong. You continued to drive the car with no oil to the bearings thinking the gauge failed. That finished it off. Lesson learned the hard way, but you never should have been put in this situation. There are a lot of questions for the previous owner and the engine builder.

[andronikos916]

...nothing to say guys. Nobody has ever opened this engine before - nor the previous customer. I was talking to the phone 5min ago. I know the guy. After all why to open a brand new engine with less that 700miles? The car was with 690miles when I got it...Yes I drove more that 10miles with psi gauge to zero. That is my mistake - but why to fail? That is definitely not my fault. Something was not correct from the very beginning. Anyway....

Theoretically speaking who do you consider a good mechanic to rebuilt that engine? What I can do now is to take the entire engine out and ship t to US (to a good engine builder) and then basically have faith to him that he will do great job. Or if PE and Eric takes responsibility about the mismatched parts to trust him. I am a person that I believe in human errors and 2nd chances...

Another crazy idea, is to ask from that mechanic to come here and rebuilt it here with me. You know to cover the travel expenses and have a week of holidays in Greece etc... :-) This way I will learn also.

Last idea - and I know might sound crazy is to decide that I will learn everything and I will rebuilt it myself very slowly. Of course I will need your input and great help - it might sound crazy now, but this will a life time experience.

Maybe I am upset now - it is logical that my mind is not thinking clear now. I will give a couple of days off and enjoy my life.

Best - Andronikos,

[392cobra]

It's really sad that you are having to go through this.

I would suggest you get some advise from some professionals on what direction to take.
I would guess that ordering a complete turn key engine would be a better way than trying to deal with your present engine.Shipping it to the USA or attempting to rebuild it ,with the needed machining,in Greece doesn't seem to me to be the right direction.

Here are two known professionals I would contact and discuss all your wants and options with :

Brent Lykins (502) 759-1431 brent@b2motorsportsllc.com
B2 Motorsports, LLC Products

Keith Craft (807) 246-7460
Keith Craft Performance Engines

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

It's really sad that you are having to go through this.

I would suggest you get some advise from some professionals on what direction to take.
I would guess that ordering a complete turn key engine would be a better way than trying to deal with your present engine.Shipping it to the USA or attempting to rebuild it ,with the needed machining,in Greece doesn't seem to me to be the right direction.

Here are two known professionals I would contact and discuss all your wants and options with :

Brent Lykins (502) 759-1431 brent@b2motorsportsllc.com
b2motorsportsllc.com

Keith Craft (807) 246-7460 keithcraft.com

+1....My suggestion would be to contact either of the 2 mentioned above and have a "long block assembly" built and shipped to you...you would then re-use your oil pan/starter/valve covers/distributor/intake manifold/carb/water pump/timing chain cover/harmonic balancer/pulleys and a few little odds and ends, you and your mechanic would then install these parts from your present motor to the new one and install in your car.....it would be the most cost effective way to get you back on the road and probably the quickest also......
trying to re-build your present engine is not the best choice considering your location and the amount of damage and the engine itself.......

BTW: ever figure out what brand cylinder heads are on the engine???

David

[Wbulk]

After all that why didn't you pull some of the bearing caps as suggested? If you pull a rod cap there should be a numbers stamped on the same side to match them back up again. The main bearings are numbered and have an arrow towards the front so you don't put them on backwards.
At this point do we know the oil pump failed causing the lifters to bleed down and fail and bearings to get destroyed. But we are not really sure on the bearings yet because none of the caps have been pulled. If that one rod got that hot usually it is obvious if you wiggle it back and forth. And why just that one. Pull that cap and let's see.

[andronikos916]

I will pull all rod bearing caps on Monday then (as usual I will take pics). Also I'll test if the oil sensor is actually working.

Best - Andronikos,

[Wbulk]

Andronikos, I have torn down engines with one audible bearing bad and lucked out with the crank still good. I have seen it go the other way plenty of times to. Sometimes you luck out. I didn't read the cause of that oil pump failure or was it just the rod. Is it a high volume pump. I can't see the lifter clip making it past the oil pump screen.

If by some chance you luck out with the crank then you have more options. You can always throw money at this thing but I think you need to know what you have first. Find out about the bearings and then let's brain storm and debate the situation considering where you live.

[Gaz64]

I'd say he has a high volume pump and a standard pump driveshaft.

Tight clearances, big pump and weak shaft.

Weak shaft is the weak link.

Most would agree to run a gauge AND a light, both can't lie at the same time.

Yes, he still has a chance, although very slim.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

I'd say he has a high volume pump and a standard pump driveshaft.

Tight clearances, big pump and weak shaft.

Weak shaft is the weak link.

Most would agree to run a gauge AND a light, both can't lie at the same time.

Yes, he still has a chance, although very slim.

On my race car and street car I have a red warning light with a 20Lb. psi sender....if it comes on, you'l see it.....thankfully,never have seen them come on except at start-up........

BTW: I'm not a big proponent of high volume oil pumps....

BTW 2: at some Ford Fun Events, they used to have a "chevy burn down contest", take any old chevy car out of a junkyard still running, remove the driveshaft, drain the water in the radiator and oil in the pan, start it up, put a brick on the accelarator and you'd pay a few bucks to guess how long the motor would last before blowing, seen one do 22 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[Eljaro]

Andronikos,
sorry to read your bad experience. You think you have a nice cobra and you want to drive it and enjoy, and all of a sudden you find yourself with a broken engine.
Something very similar happened to me on my first excursion with my new cobra. I did not get very far because the headgasket blew and the engine went hidro. Hade to send the engine twice to England to have it repaired by the guy who build it (badly), and the third time I had a problem I decided to do it myself.
Get yourself a Haynes manual for your engine, get a torque wrench, take the engine out of the car (you will have to eventually) and have the crankshaft repaired locally.
I live in Mallorca, Spain, and here we have many mechanics servicing boat engines, most of them are big american V8. So the experience is there. I am sure that there is some shop doing crankshaft turning and polishing. You can take the engine block to such a shop and they will repair it. You will only have to get them the rod and main bearings, they will do the rest. The Haynes manual will tell them the tolerances and torque values.
Get an ARP shaft for the pump, or any other real good shaft.
Your rockers are sitting to low on rocker stud. The rocker studs are probably too short Check the manufacturer of the rockers and see if some longer rocker studs are on offer. You will also need longer pushrods. Two or three of the hydraulic lifters will have to be replaced too.
You can get parts at Summit or Jegs or any other of the online automotive shops.
You can also contact someone like Keithcraft and have him have a look at the pictures. He can tell you what you need to fix the valvetrain issue.
I would take the engine out, remove the heads, check the valves for bent ones, take the engine block to a machine shop for crankshaft repair and in the meantime sort the valve train issue.
You can also order a new short block , but you will have to pay over 2000$ for freight,, plus custom tax and the 23% VAT tax. Expensive.
Do it youself, you will learn a lot and eventually enjoy working on the car as much as driving it.
By the way, what Cobra is that? Looks like the front suspension from a BMW Series 3.

[Wbulk]

That's what I though on the pump with those stock oil pump shafts. There is a lot of debate about the merits of the HV pumps. We use to break those shafts a lot in the 60s and that was before the HV pumps. I have a gauge, a light, and a buzzer. Two senders!

Wayne

[mreid]

Glad to hear you used a Chevy!

[Wbulk]

I tend to agree with Eljaro. If the crank is bad and you can get it turned locally, that is a big plus. Even if you replaced the heads with some Edelbrocks and go with new rockers, and the other parts, I bet you would have less than 2,000 into it including shipping. As you can see so called high performance parts do not necessarily a high performance engine make.