Ford Racing 427W ate cam gear

[Luce]

Well, per the everything I read, with a roller cam, you should use a steel gear. So I paid my $65 to MDS for their steel dizzy gear. Well, 1100 miles, and i was chasing an erratic timing problem. Luckily, I was in the driveway when it finally jumped a tooth. After setting the timing 4 times and still not getting it to crank, I thought I was having a stroke or something because it was 90 deg retarded after I know I had it on within 5 deg or so....

The real question. I need a new cam. If the rollers are PERFECT, do I need to change them with the cam? I think that may be a flat tappet only rule, but I would rather not have to pull it apart again trying to save $400.

I'm considering what cam with to go with. As it is, the HP peak is at the recommended red line. The bottom end parts sound like they could rev a bit higher. Maybe the limit is valve float. I honestly don't need any more power, but maybe a tad less cam would give better low end torque, but then again, it has enough and I like the sound of a well done downshift.

Somewhere, I saw a dyno graph of this engine, and I can't find it back. Torque peak is 4800rpm 545 ft lbs, HP peak is 5600rpm 535HP, and still climbing. My instinct is rev it more to use that power or tune it down to where you are allowed to run it. Is Ford being overly cautious on the redline for warranty reasons?

I'll also do a major inspection, including pulling a few bearing caps to check. I'm betting I'll replace the oil pump because I think the shards were small enough to get past the oil screen, but I didn't notice any oil pressure reduction. I will replace the lifters if there is any sign of damage to the wheel.

Cam recommendations from anyone?

[vector1]

no cam recommendation, well, maybe the one that is in there. but there is a pipe plug behind the distributor shaft inside the block, pull it and drill a very small hole in it to lubricate the shaft & gears. i'm talking pin size.

[bobcowan]

The redline is generally a function of the valve train. Especially the lifters and springs. If you want to raise the rpm limit, you'll need to change those two items. And, really, unless you're racing, there's not much point in it. Except that it sounds cool.

When the distributer and cam gear go, it sends all that trash through the engine. The oil filter should pick it all out, if there's not too much. When that happened to me, I pulled the pan and cleaned it out, and disassembled the oil pump for cleaning and polishing. Then I flushed it by doing a couple of oil changes with cheap oil and a good filter. I ran it that way for another year without any problems.

[Luce]

Ford racing give the spec's of the cam, but not the manufacturer. Howard has quite a few and say they're made in the USA. Any comment or manufacturer recommendation?

I'm leaning to going back with something very close to what I have to a little less lift and duration so I don't run into problems with valve/piston improper interaction. Same with the valve springs. I'll maybe measure the current height so I can explore possible heavier springs for more RPM's, but I don't plan on pulling the heads to verify clearance, so I'm not going with any longer duration.

Thanks

[blykins]

I'd be more than happy to help you with cam selection.....shoot me an email if you wish.

I'd be more inclined to find out why it ate the gear first though...

Check the distance from the distributor flange to the end of the gear. There is a spec for the gear to be installed by and if it's too short/too long, it can do what you're describing.

Lifters are cheap. Most likely, Ford Racing used the OEM spider and OEM lifters. If so, a new set is about $110...

[Luce]

I don't recall the dimension, but It was in the docs I downloaded from Fordracing, and I was in spec. Also, the contact patch on the distributor gear was in the middle of the teeth.

I didn't get a dizzy gear pic, but I did get a pic of the cam gear with my little USB snake camera. It was all drenched with oil, too.

I suspect a bad, unfinished gear from MDS, or a soft cam. Next time around, I'm thinking I want to use the bronze gear on the dizzy and change it as needed. It's a simple operation compared to changing the cam.

Thanks Brent. I'll give you a call later this morning. I'm hoping you can just set em up with what I need to do it this weekend.

[blykins]

I would rather have a steel gear any day.....the bronze gears aren't noted for their longevity.

[carmine]

Luce wrote:
"Well, per the everything I read, with a roller cam, you should use a steel gear"



With a (FORGED STEEL) roller cam. you should use a steel gear.

Eg: If its a comp cam part # _ _- _ _ _-9 . The -9 indicates forged steel roller cam, which in turn suggest you use steel gear.


Was your cam made from forged steel or cast iron?

[Luce]

The Ford docs said use a steel gear.

Cut and paste from the PDF...

DISTRIBUTOR GEAR INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
:
The M-6007-Z427FFT/FRT comes with a billet steel hyd
raulic roller camshaft. M-12390-F steel distributor
gear required.


I used the MSD steel gear. I checked my receipts.

[carmine]

Cam gear looks completely gone.

Paste a pic of the distributor gear so we can see and compare to cam gear pic.

[Luce]

I don't have one with me. I'll take one when I get home. It's totally intact. The mating surface is a little bit galled and mottled, but there doesn't seem to be any material missing.

I questioned the dizzy gear when I bought it. The mating surface was a satin black parkerized looking finish instead of a polished shiny metal like I expected. In retrospect, I wonder if it was not yet finished or something. It was $65 and top name stuff in a factory sealed package, so I said whatever, put a little bit of grease on it and installed it.

[carmine]

I have a steel gear from MSD on my dizzy aswell and it looks exacly as you discribed. Satin black parkerized looking finish.

For your cam gear to wear like that it seams that it was way softer than the dizzy gear.

Makes me question if the cam was realy billet steel or somthing softer.
Or may be the dizzy gear was way harder than it was suppost to be.

To much cam end play or distributor and cam mesh to tight along with wrong materials.

[Luce]

I can see where the dizzy gear rides on the block, but it's no chewed up or anything. The bottom of the gear again is shiny where it mates with the block. The cam pulls the dizzy down, and the dizzy pushes the cam back in the block. The dizzy has some end play, but it was in spec of the depth measure so the clamp isn't forcing the gear down. Here's a pic of the gear.

The mesh location on the gear goes up and down as you go around. I think this is due to the chewing of the cam gear. But there is very little (in comparison) metal missing from thisw gear.

[vector1]

what weight oil you guys using in these engines?

[Luce]

10W40...per instructions. Castrol GTX for break in. I had Moble1 ready to change this week before Texas Cobra Spring meet.

[Texasdoc]

Are you using a high volume oil pump or standard?

[Jaydee]

I have just installed a new crane, roller cam. And now you guys have me worried about the dizzy gear. It's a 302 Windsor. I used the old shaft on a drill to prime the oil system, and I was suprised how much torque was used to spin the oil pump. Even at a very low rpm the oil pressure was 60 psi.
I assume, once the oil warms up, it wouldn't drag as much?
So should my new dizzy gear be shiny?
JD

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by Texasdoc

Are you using a high volume oil pump or standard?

Those come with high volume oil pumps.

[vector1]

one of my cars has the 351 fms engine that came with a high volume oil pump, no problems, yet.

[carmine]

Dallas

Was that a bronze gear that they told you to install in your ford racing 427w or was it a steel or cast iron gear?

Does the engine have hydraulic roller lifters?