Supercharger vs. N/A build!

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Cobrat24

Ok so to answer your question, as we all know the existing side pipe setup from the primary's to the collectors are very restrictive, not to mention within the actual sidepipe itself. The idea with this is, headers to high flow borla exhaust and borla to straight pipe no restrictions. This flows better than the exhaust with side pipe setup that is offer currently. I know there are others out there that take care of the sidepipe itself but no one offers an alternative to the collector issues from header to side pipe. If you look at those collectors , a 2 inch primary times 4 is squeezed down to really a 1 inch through that collector.

I could be wrong, but that looks like the Factory Five J-pipe (1987-1995 J-Pipe Kit - Factory Five Parts Catalog). If so, a better solution would seem to be their headers for the 302 (302 Headers - Factory Five Parts Catalog) - full size primaries all the way to the side pipes.

[RET_COP]

Was that a Mustang Dyno or a DynoJet. There is a difference. Maybe 13% in favor of the Dynojet. Not that it matters either way but I'm trying to get apples to apples numbers in my head.

[Cobrat24]

Side pipe I'm using.. Hollow no packing

[Cobrat24]

Side pipe I am using, no packing or reductions.

[Bernica]

And a new intake already? Before selecting cam and rebuilding the motor?

[Cobrat24]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I could be wrong, but that looks like the Factory Five J-pipe (1987-1995 J-Pipe Kit - Factory Five Parts Catalog). If so, a better solution would seem to be their headers for the 302 (302 Headers - Factory Five Parts Catalog) - full size primaries all the way to the side pipes.

Yea I could go this route but then it would be like everyone else's exhaust. I like the idea of a single pipe with no primary's coming out. Besides I was told this flow rate would be ideal for my motor setup. I'll upload he photos when complete.

[Cobrat24]

Originally Posted by Bernica

And a new intake already? Before selecting cam and rebuilding the motor?

Nope Cam, Heads and intake were all setup at the same time. I'll be posting as We go through each, right now dealing with the piston issue...

New ones on the way.

[Cobrat24]

New heads: Valves are 2.02, 1.60. Old ones are 1.94 and 1.51. Amazingly enough old valves weren't bent.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Cobrat24

It was never misfiring the 3 months I was able to drive it before we had snow. But 6 out of the 8 Pistons have marks. I'm sure if I had a full summer driving this it would have grenaded on me. Better to catch it now.

I'm going to post pictures of the new cam vs the old cam with the specs. Same with the heads. Everything in this motor is very very mild when this guy put it together. Honestly I can't believe I couldn't hear it when it was running.

Lucky it didn't blow up.

No valve reliefs, novice, (previous builder).

Valve to piston clearance needs to be checked at dummy build.

I'd fit a piston and rod WITH no rings, fit that head with light checking springs, set the lash, and roll the engine over to check VTPC.
Allow for compressed head gasket thickness.

I would also have the engine out on a stand.

And specs please, specs specs specs please..

[Bernica]

You appear to be in so deep now, don't take shortcuts. Bench the engine and go through it top to bottom if you decide to re-use it. IMHO

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Phill Pollard

Olddog,

Your statement isn't entirely true. You were good up until you gave the 4000 feet comment.

Speed Density systems actually DO compensate for altitude on the fly without having to turn the key on/engine off (KOEO). They do it by sensing the manifold pressure (via the MAP) every time it sees WOT (via the TPS or Full Throttle switch on a minimum function system).

So on your way up that 4000' mountain, every time you push the throttle to the floor the ECM sees atmospheric pressure (since man vac drops to 0"Hg) and notes it as BARO.

I have seen ONE instance where a customer drove his car over a very long distance with a *gradual* rise in elevation without ever having to floor the gas pedal and he got a CEL out of it. That's one instance in over 25 years of EEC work so it is rare.


Hope That Helps,

Phill Pollard

Phill,

Thanks for the correction (I don't want to put bad info out). I never studied Speed Density in great detail, but read a bit. I do not recall anyone ever pointing out that it will correct the Baro at WOT (not doubting you). That is not intuitive that they could do that because vacuum would not necessarily drop to zero at WOT. At high rpm WOT, I would expect there to still be a bit of vacuum. Otherwise the claims of a bigger TB increasing power is BS.

Rick

[olddog]

I'm guessing factory rods are in it now. Since your buying pistons anyway, get a complete rotating assembly for a 347" stroker build. ~$1200 or so.

That extra 45 cubes will be worth in the ball park of 55 Hp 60 torque.

[ct clint]

Ok if no one else is going to say it i will. That needs to come out b hot tanked and flushed out. Check bores for true Ness if good deglazed. I like to deck them also. Crank needs to be inspected good time to polish it if it's in speck. Spend the money get rotating assamably balanced. If u are using new heads they should be pulled apart cleaned and inspected. U will be surprised what u find they are mass produced not built buy loving hands. You can fit your parts together right and did your math it should be good. In the best motors round things are perfect round and flat is flat. Do some math on how much air will flow through the headers. Yours may be fine u only need to push out what goes through the carb. Sorry for the rant but don't waste money do it right. There are far smarter guys on here then me I am sure they will add.

[Cobrat24]

Originally Posted by olddog

I'm guessing factory rods are in it now. Since your buying pistons anyway, get a complete rotating assembly for a 347" stroker build. ~$1200 or so.

That extra 45 cubes will be worth in the ball park of 55 Hp 60 torque.

As much as I would love to do this, I am already over my budget just with the additional labor to pull the motor and pistons and all the work that comes with that. Especially now that everything is out and bare.

[Cobrat24]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

Lucky it didn't blow up.

No valve reliefs, novice, (previous builder).

Valve to piston clearance needs to be checked at dummy build.

I'd fit a piston and rod WITH no rings, fit that head with light checking springs, set the lash, and roll the engine over to check VTPC.
Allow for compressed head gasket thickness.

I would also have the engine out on a stand.

And specs please, specs specs specs please..

Yeah my mech had me come in and we went through the bottom end, cylinders, bearings, etc..

I won't be taking any short cuts on this. With that being said as much as I would love to go to a stroker bottom end, I just can't afford the extra $$$.

So I'll be prepping the block, putting in some JE pistons, doing an edlebrock low rise manifold so that I can get a bigger air filter on it. Doing new heads as you saw in the previous threads. Valves are much more aggressive. New Valves are 2.02, 1.60. Coming from the old ones which were 1.94 and 1.51. Specifically on the new heads the intake ports are much larger than those old ones, seriously no joke, my thumb could plug it, they were that small.

Cam wise doing a comp cam hydraulic..
Duration : 276/282
Lift: 544/544
Here's the link of the cam: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts 35-328-8 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Both the heads and cam were matched together. I am setting this up so that when I move to a Windsor, a few of these items such as the heads can be moved right to the bigger motor, thus saving future funds on the next build.

Based off what we are seeing for numbers with this combination, which my mech has done, he is claiming minimum 100hp gain rear wheel with what we saw on the dyno and what's currently in the motor. I trust him, the guy has a long standing history as being the guru for small block builds, he's even done stuff for Sema. So I trust what he says. Besides at the end of the day the dyno numbers don't lie about a motors ingredients from a builder. If I'm close to 400hp rear wheel , I'll be happy with that coming from 241hp.

I'll keep posting pics as we go. Thanks for supporting me guys. For my first post this turned in to the most knowledgable thread..

[Bernica]

As I am sure you know, to get 400 at rear wheel, you are going to need to hit 470-500 at the flywheel. 15-20% loss in the drivetrain.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bernica

As I am sure you know, to get 400 at rear wheel, you are going to need to hit 470-500 at the flywheel. 15-20% loss in the drivetrain.

Or just lie about the results. That's what many of the folks around here like to do.

[Bernica]

Yes they do!
Seeing posts claiming 500-600 RWHP always cracks me up. It's very simple math...
Good luck with your build Cobrat24 and just keep us all in the loop on how things work out.

[Cobrat24]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Or just lie about the results. That's what many of the folks around here like to do.

Ha ha ha I'm not much of a liar... I'll post the dyno results. Either way what I end up with when this is done is better than the Kia horsepower it currently has!

[Cobrat24]

Block prep done, crank,rods,bearings, cam and pistons back in. Working on top end assembly meow!