thoughts? ..chime in

Scufty · #1 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 01:43 PM

SO ..Im building a 302 ..Before everyone gets on me about aluminum heads blah blah understand that these are a bunch opf parts that I am trying to put together a engine with for minor money.

Now.
I have a 74 302 block ..it was in good shape but going .40 over with flat top Hypereutectic pistons.
stock crank was in good shape so polish and back in. rods are fine - will go with ARP bolts.
new bearings all round.
I have a set of good worked a little 351 heads from 1970. going to bolt them on and see how they are. ( I know ...just get Aluminum heads ) These are free mind you.
This is the Cam I have Ford M-6250-312 matched with lifters and springs.
then a performer intake a holley carb.

then headers (not sure what yet)

thoughts?

Thanks all who chime in

1985 CCX · #2 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 02:13 PM

My thoughts

Cast heads
Solid lifters

Remember, the original cars are only 300hp... Easy to do and more is not always better.....

I run cast heads with solid lifters and have yet to be told I should have done something different

Tom Cimino · #3 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 03:30 PM

My 302 is also a '74 block .030 over with '70 351 W heads. I used TRW forged pistons with a slight dish. The heads were milled .020 and the rocker bosses milled .025 and threaded for screw-in studs. The intake is an Edelbrock Performer. I did my own porting and bowl relief and matched the intake with 351 gaskets, so the runners were matched. You have to use 351 intake gaskets.

I originally built this engine in 1984 for my Pinto. It's been a good engine and is still in my Cobra. It likes medium grade gas, but will run on regular all day long. I really like this combo and you don't have to rob a bank to build it. Good luck.

DWRAT · #4 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scufty

This is the Cam I have Ford M-6250-312 matched with lifters and springs.

Just make sure with that cam that you use the correct oil.
Current day oil will kill a flat tappet cam.
I personally use Brad Penn oil.

Scufty · #5 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Just make sure with that cam that you use the correct oil.
Current day oil will kill a flat tappet cam.
I personally use Brad Penn oil.

Oh boy..correct oil..lol here we go again.
So what would be the right oil for this cam...no detergent? Etc etc?
I've been down this road. I don't recall using any special oil breaking in my solid lifter in my 427 and no problems. Not saying I know anything specific about oils but what is the consensus on what to use?
Thanks ...keep it coming

Scufty · #6 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Just make sure with that cam that you use the correct oil.
Current day oil will kill a flat tappet cam.
I personally use Brad Penn oil.

And thanks!....yes I will make sure oil is right for break in
Cheers

undy · #7 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 07:33 PM

Ensure your combustion chamber size on your 351 heads is compatible with your 302 pistons. Nothing worse than having an 8 to 1 CR on a performance engine.

Scufty · #8 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 08:09 PM

Ya agreed undy...I will make sure.
Thanks...

DWRAT · #9 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scufty

Oh boy..correct oil..lol here we go again.
So what would be the right oil for this cam...no detergent? Etc etc?
I've been down this road. I don't recall using any special oil breaking in my solid lifter in my 427 and no problems. Not saying I know anything specific about oils but what is the consensus on what to use?
Thanks ...keep it coming

Wow, I was just trying to help you out and you respond like this?
Lets see if any others will fill you in or maybe in time you will learn what I learned the hard way.
Good luck on your build.

Scufty · #10 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Wow, I was just trying to help you out and you respond like this?
Lets see if any others will fill you in or maybe in time you will learn what I learned the hard way.
Good luck on your build.

Don't get me wrong..I appreciate all the help and I wasn't trying to sound disrespectful.its just that the whole oil thing has been beat to death is all I ment. Nothing to do with your comments.
You might have took my comments wrong..again I ment no disrespect.

Scufty · #11 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scufty

Don't get me wrong..I appreciate all the help and I wasn't trying to sound disrespectfully.its just that the whole oil thing has been beat to death is all I ment. Nothing to do with your comments.
You might have took my comments wrong..again I ment no disrespect.

And after reading my comments again I really don't see what I might have said that bothered you?
I very much understand the "right oil" thing. My point was that everyone has their idea of what oil and how to break in is all. And there are many many people that have many different ideas is all. Sorry you took it wrong...it's just that I've been through the whole right oil thing before. More making light of that is all
Cheers

Texasdoc · #12 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 09:35 PM

I lost a cam. Not by using the wrong oil but from using the wrong springs. My aftermarket heads had springs for roller lifters. Too much pressure for the tappet cam. I don't know about your parts but make sure your seat pressure and opening pressure are correct for a tappet cam.

Jac Mac · #13 (**permalink**) 03-22-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scufty

SO ..Im building a 302 ..Before everyone gets on me about aluminum heads blah blah understand that these are a bunch opf parts that I am trying to put together a engine with for minor money.

Now.
I have a 74 302 block ..it was in good shape but going .40 over with flat top Hypereutectic pistons.
stock crank was in good shape so polish and back in. rods are fine - will go with ARP bolts.I would use 289 or Boss 302 rods (5.155") and skim ~0.035"/0.040" of the piston- that will get you piston out the top of block ~0.010" @ TDC for a piston to head clearance ~0.035" with a 0.042 gasket. If your getting brave on camshaft deepen the valve pockets at same time.
new bearings all round.
I have a set of good worked a little 351 heads from 1970. going to bolt them on and see how they are. ( I know ...just get Aluminum heads ) These are free mind you.
This is the Cam I have Ford M-6250-312 matched with lifters and springs.
then a performer intake a holley carb.Do the lifter bore groove mod ( you can buy the tool from Comp Cams or build your own if you have access to a lathe ) , check for lifter rotation when you do your cam pre-assembly checks, run the cam in with some light springs at first start for 20/30 minutes with a straight 20 or 30 oil plus zddp additive and 2/2500 rpm.

then headers (not sure what yet)

thoughts?

Thanks all who chime in

In text above.

Scufty · #14 (**permalink**) 03-24-2016, 08:17 PM

Sounds good...I think I'm on the right track

olddog · #15 (**permalink**) 03-25-2016, 09:35 AM

If you are interested in making more power, the heads are where the power is at. You can flow just as much air through cast iron, as you can aluminum. It requires port work. The difference is aluminum is much easier (softer) to machine. The other advantage of aluminum is heat conductivity. There is less hot spots in the combustion chamber, so you can run a bit more compression. I digressed. The point, work on the ports.

If head has pressed in studs, pull them, tap them, and screw in studs.

I have read enough to believe the ZDDP and flat tappet cam thing is real enough to matter. It's your money.

I would spend the money for a roller lifter cam set up, if I cared about power. The roller lifters allow for much steeper ramps, which gets the valve open sooner and holds it open longer than a flat tappet with the same duration. If you cannot afford it or don't care about power, then the flat tappets will work just fine, but I would add STP or some other ZDDP to the oil.

Scufty · #16 (**permalink**) 03-29-2016, 07:27 PM

Update.
So machine shop is decking block to make for a little better compression. Heads have been worked a little and got rid of exhaust hump etc. I will at least port match intake and exhaust.
This is not a "roller block" although I've heard different things about using roller lifters in a non roller block. I will go with roller rockers. I pulled studs and machine shop will tap and install studs and guide plates. When all is said and done if I'm still not happy I will go aluminium heads.

blykins · #17 (**permalink**) 03-30-2016, 02:57 AM

Nothing wrong with a small displacement engine and factory cast iron heads....

DanEC · #18 (**permalink**) 03-30-2016, 05:22 AM

DWRAT is 100% correct. Wiped flat tappet (mech and hyd) cams have become quite commonplace in the last 20 +/- years due to manufacture changes in motor oils to reduce zinc and phosphorus levels to protect catalytic converters. Some guys have wiped out 2 cams out in a row before finally biting the bullet and converting to a roller cam. A flat tappet cam will still work but you have to be careful with break in oil and then continue to run an oil with elevated ZDDP levels such as Rotella 15W-40 diesel oil, or Joe Gibbs, or Brad Penn oil. There are some others still around with high ZDDP levels but you have to do some research to find them or risk a very high likelihood of wiping a cam lobe or two out.

blykins · #19 (**permalink**) 03-30-2016, 05:52 AM

I use EDM lifters, nitrided cams, watch the spring pressure on break-in, and shove the engine full of Brad Penn break-in oil. Knock on wood.

Dwight · #20 (**permalink**) 03-30-2016, 06:03 AM

take a look at Valvoline VR1 cost about half of the Joe Gibbs oil.

VR1™ RACING OIL (VR1™)

Valvoline™ VR1 Racing Oil's high zinc provides race-level protection for high performance engines on the race track or the highway. Valvoline Racing Oil's exclusive chemistry is designed to reduce friction and enhance power. It is among the most popular engine lubricants in all types of racing including paved and dirt ovals, and drag racing. Formulated for race engines, but compatible with passenger vehicles too.

PI SHEET | MSDS