Any 351 Cleveland guys out there - need to ID block and heads

[767Jockey]

Guys, You're right, without a doubt. I was bummed due to my ignorance of the 2V heads. I thought that meant that the engine was destined to be Dad's station wagon propulsion. I was obviously wrong, thanks to all the great info I got from you guys and so many others. My plans for the Cleveland are fairly short term - one day I still want an FE. Until then, I'll be running the Cleveland. I'm pulling it out later this week in order to prep the engine bay and swap out the automatic for a stick. Mr. Mustang has graciously offered to ID the block and heads for me to see exactly what it is I'm dealing with. (Thanks again, Bill) The biggest hurdle I see is finding a Contemporary pedal box that has a clutch pedal. Any ideas, guys? My gas pedal is seperate, not in the same box - I need to find an overhead pedal box with a brake and clutch pedal. Any ideas? This is by far my biggest concern on the project.

After I pull the engine I'll take off the oil pan, timing cover and intake, and try to determing as best I can what I have. I don't want to spend a alot on this thing, seeing that it's not my long term engine. I may throw a cam in it and a new carb, that's about it. Anything you guys think I should do while I'm in there that won't cost a bunch of money? It has good oil pressure now, should I throw in a oil pump anyway, or is that a waste of money? Are there significantly better pumps out there than Ford put in? The rear main doesn't appear to be leaking - I'm inclined to let it be. Any other quick ideas while I have it out? Again, thanks for all the input. It takes us old Chevy guys more time to learn the Ford way.

[autoxmike]

I have a 408 CI Clevor that my brother built circa 1993. Here is some interesting Cleveland head data from my archives. Hopefully it will be easy to read when I paste it into this message:

Cleveland Head FYI
------------------
Production cast iron Cleveland style heads have several different combustion chamber, valve, and port sizes. Closed chamber refers to the smaller volume heads and the 4V refers to the heads with larger ports and valves that originally came on cars with 4V carbs. There are also aftermarket SVO aluminum heads (C302, Yates) which bolt onto Cleveland blocks but have non-stock intake and exhaust port locations, requiring special manifolds.

Chamber Int/Exh Intake Exhaust Notes Casting
Volume Valve Dia Port Port Numbers
CC's inches inches inches


Boss 302W
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 61.3-64.3 2.23/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,8
1970 57.0-60.0 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,8

Boss 351C
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1971 66.1 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,8 D1ZE-B

351C 4V
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
70-71 62.8 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,8 DOAE-H,R
71 CJ 75.4 2.19/1.17 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,9 D1ZE-DA
72 HO 75.4 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,9,10 D2ZE-A
72-74 76.2 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,4,9 D1ZE-GA

351C 2V
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70-74 US 76.2 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,5 DOAE-E,J; DOAZ-A,B,D; D1ZE-CB; D1AE

351M/400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
75-82 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D5AE-AA; D5AZ
71-74 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D1AE-A; D3AE-G2B

Aussie 2V
----------------------------------------------------------------
Aussie 2V 62.0 2.04/1.65 6,8
Aussie 2V 78 2.04/1.65 9,11



Notes:
1. Non-adjustable, cap screw with 5/16 inch bolt, pedestal rockers, non-hardened pushrods, multi-groove valves
2. Adjustable, 7/16 inch screw-in studs, guideplates, hardened pushrods, single groove valves
3. has intake manifold water thermostat passages to match 302W block
4. open-type combustion chamber and induction hardened exhaust valve seats, otherwise same as early 4V
5. Nearly identical to 351M/400 heads, oval exhaust ports
6. used on Australian 302C and 351C, fits US 2V intake and exhaust manifolds, rumored to have a slightly larger (10%) intake port, combustion chamber shape may be different that U.S. 4V closed chamber so pop-up pistons meant for 4V heads may not fit with clearancing
7. May have an additional EGR passage, otherwise nearly identical to US 351C 2V, oval exhaust ports
8. Closed chamber
9. Open chamber
10. open-type combustion chambers otherwise same as 71 Boss 351
11. Used on later Pantera 351C's which were sourced from Australia (probably originally meant for Australian truck applications), heads appear to be the same as U.S. 2V open chamber items.



Miscellaneous:
There are two major differences between the open chamber 2V and closed chamber 4V heads. First is the ports. The 4V heads have good intake ports and horrible exhaust ports. The 2V intakes flow almost as much, with considerably higher velocity, and have much better exhausts. The flow balance across the ports dramatically affects the engine's camshaft requirements.



The second difference is the combustion chamber shape. The open chamber head burns well, has low emissions, and is reasonably resistant to detonation at low (under 10:1) compression ratios. The closed chamber (also known as quench chambers) heads are more sensitive to octane, but the shorter flame path helps reduce required spark lead and makes more power. The fuel and timing requirements for open and closed chamber heads are much different. David Vizard claims open chamber heads respond well to multiple spark ignitions (e.g. MSD 6), requiring less ignition lead.

[Burgs]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I need to find an overhead pedal box with a brake and clutch pedal. Any ideas?

Wilwood has a number of different options. This one is standard on the Hurricane kits.

http://www.wilwood.com/Products/005-...mtmc/index.asp

[767Jockey]

Ok guys, here's what I found:

Heads - other than the "2" on the upper rear corner of the head outside the valve cover, the only other numbers I can see (the engine is still in the car) are inside the valve cover in the rocker arm area. Once I took the valve cover off, I found sort of an oblong raised area with the numbers "2H30" inside it. I also saw a circle with the numbers 81357 in it. since the numbers are arranged around the circle, there's no way to tell which number is the first in the sequence. I started with 8 for no reason other than I had to start somewhere. Looking at Autoxmike's post, I don't think I have the right numbers for the heads, as the numbers and format don't seem to match anything. Where else should I look for numbers? Where on the head are the numbers I need?

Block - After removing the starter, I found two lines of numbers. The top line reads "D2AE-CA". Under that it says on a seperate line "2HI" or "2H1". I can't tell if the last character is the letter I or the number one.

What have I got here, guys? Are the heads and block a matched set as delivered from the factory? Please tell me everything you know, no matter how trivial, about this setup. Are the heads closed or open shamber? Is the block 2 or 4 bolt main? If the block contains it's original equipment pistons (which I suspect it does), what is the approximate compression ratio with these heads? What year and model did these heads and block come from? Is there anyting in particular good or bad about the block or heads? Are either of them considered to be desireable for any reason? Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
Doug

[autoxmike]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Block - After removing the starter, I found two lines of numbers. The top line reads "D2AE-CA". Under that it says on a seperate line "2HI" or "2H1". I can't tell if the last character is the letter I or the number one.

Is the block 2 or 4 bolt main?

From a quick internet search on the block casting #:

some 2-bolt blocks were manufactured from the same casting as the High Output 4-bolt blocks. Between 1971 and 1974 the production of 2-bolt and 4-bolt engines could have utilized the same casting (D2AE-CA) depending on what was delivered to the assembly line. This casting was called the Cobra Jet (CJ). In the case of the 4-bolt block, they were drilled, tapped, and stamped as a D3ZZ-A part number, were as the 2-bolt was not drilled or tapped, but stamped with a D1ZZ-A part number.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by autoxmike

From a quick internet search on the block casting #:

some 2-bolt blocks were manufactured from the same casting as the High Output 4-bolt blocks. Between 1971 and 1974 the production of 2-bolt and 4-bolt engines could have utilized the same casting (D2AE-CA) depending on what was delivered to the assembly line. This casting was called the Cobra Jet (CJ). In the case of the 4-bolt block, they were drilled, tapped, and stamped as a D3ZZ-A part number, were as the 2-bolt was not drilled or tapped, but stamped with a D1ZZ-A part number.

So if I understand correctly, it's essentially the same as the 4 bolt main block, but with two bolt mains?

[autoxmike]

Sounds like it to me! First time I ran across this info was when I googled the casting number when I saw it in your post.

P.S. - 2 of my neighbors are 767 Jockeys

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

So if I understand correctly, it's essentially the same as the 4 bolt main block, but with two bolt mains?

Pretty much so, as pointed out they share the same casting numbers on some blocks. Now this is for a standard Cleveland block..there was mention of the XE block which is beefier all around, but regular production ones are even cast for the 4 bolt caps. The difference is, of course, the machining for the extra bolts. Any of the 2 bolt Cleveland blocks I have seen could be converted if someone needed to, in most cases it is unneccesary.

[AK1234]

I have this block in my 73 Pantera and its a 4 bolt block ... I did hear rumors that it has been spotted as a 2 bolt block ... so your on the right track ... also there have been discussions that these CJ blocks are of higher nickel content. Thats a good thing.

My advise .. is to put a set of Eldelbrock aluminum heads and matching intake and you'll have one hell of a ride.