are sb 427's really 427 c.i.'s

tool time George · #1 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 12:17 AM

Can anyone give me any feedback on a sb427! Are they as fast and ground shaking like a FE is?
Reason i'm asking I'm in the process of orderring my FFR MK 3.1 and am undecided still as to what motor to go with.
I've heard plenty sb handle better,i'll give them that.
I guess at heart i'm a bb fe at heart. and would love keith crafts special on his all aluminum 482FE for 15k but budget is a big factor.
T & L engines has 2 motors I like,a 347 stroker w/44idf webers (man there pretty)410 hp,they also have a 427w1 w/44 idf webers @500hp.
Both motors have alot of ponies,the 347 is 7k and the 427 is 9k.
Has anyone had any experience with T & L engines ?
I know Roush has a 427R thats like 15k+ too much imo.
If this makes a diff but I want my cobra to be a fire breathing screamer.
any advice would be great guys.

Ron61 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 03:25 AM

I ran a small block 351W stroked to 418 for years and had no problems keeping up with my friends who had 429s and one had a 512 C.I. in his. Now mind you this was on a road course. On a straight long stretch, the big block would pull away from me but not as fast as they had expected. The new big blocks aren't much heavier than the old cast iron small blocks and can be made to handle very well.

As for stroking the small block to 427, the engine builders that I have talked to prefer to keep theirs between 408 and 420. I know of two that have the stroker 427s and they run great and have had no problems with them. As for power, my 418 put out around 530 horse and about 520 pounds torque.

As for fast, they are very fast but you won't have that deep throated rumble that a big block gives. Just remember this is a light car and the more power and torque, the more you have to learn to drive it as it won't be like any other car you have ever driven. If you have a road course near you, I would recommend taking a high performance driving school.

Ron

1985 CCX · #3 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 04:32 AM

Keep in mind we are talking about a Cobra, a 2200lb car.
The power to weight ratio is unlike any normal production street cars so once power has creeped ~400hp you will be fast enough to catch and pass anything on the road. I run a SB and love the performance and gas mileage ~15mph+, my good friend is powered by a SO which gets single digits on a regular basis.

The FE does sound different and looks the part. I actually prefer the FE and may install one someday. Remember the 60's cars were not as fast as many of the new technology FE or SB so be careful not to reach the overkill stage.

Best of luck on your build.

mln385 · #4 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tool time George

Can anyone give me any feedback on a sb427! Are they as fast and ground shaking like a FE is?
Reason i'm asking I'm in the process of orderring my FFR MK 3.1 and am undecided still as to what motor to go with.
I've heard plenty sb handle better,i'll give them that.
I guess at heart i'm a bb fe at heart. and would love keith crafts special on his all aluminum 482FE for 15k but budget is a big factor.
T & L engines has 2 motors I like,a 347 stroker w/44idf webers (man there pretty)410 hp,they also have a 427w1 w/44 idf webers @500hp.
Both motors have alot of ponies,the 347 is 7k and the 427 is 9k.
Has anyone had any experience with T & L engines ?
I know Roush has a 427R thats like 15k+ too much imo.
If this makes a diff but I want my cobra to be a fire breathing screamer.
any advice would be great guys.

Keep in mind the 2 year 24 K warranty with the Roush as well as it is a long block vs. short so you don't need the starter intake or carb. and it is ready to fire once in the car.

Andy Dunn · #5 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 06:57 AM

To air and fuel, 427ci is 427ci no matter whether it's in a small block, large block, or any size hunk of metal. I tend to think the sound difference(if there is any) is about the difference between heads and headers. The nice thing about SB 427 is that you have many more choices in heads, intakes, and cams where with the big blocks you are more limited. A lot more companies sell porting of SB heads as well so I would even argue it's a little easier to find power since you can get 300 or better flowing heads all day long from several manufacturers.

I've had a coast 427ci and also built my own 383 stroker and 408 stroker. 90% of cobra owners would prefer the 427 since cubic inches mean more torque (not more HP but more TQ) and it seems more cobra owners like the kick-in-the-pants at low rpm. So if you are a waxer, choose the 427. If you are a racer, lean to a high-revving, high HP lower cubic inch stroker. These revving engines feel weak down low and then start to clean up an sing once you get into the cam butterzone at the 3500rpm+ range.

I should add that you cam make a 383 or 410 torquey as well...it's mainly cam choice.

Three Peaks · #6 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 07:13 AM

check ffcobra.com and do a search on T&L engines. There have been several threads on their "inconsistent quality control" . Read the threads and make up your own mind on spending the cash with them.

vettestr · #7 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Dunn

To air and fuel, 427ci is 427ci no matter whether it's in a small block, large block, or any size hunk of metal. I tend to think the sound difference(if there is any) is about the difference between heads and headers. The nice thing about SB 427 is that you have many more choices in heads, intakes, and cams where with the big blocks you are more limited. A lot more companies sell porting of SB heads as well so I would even argue it's a little easier to find power since you can get 300 or better flowing heads all day long from several manufacturers.

I've had a coast 427ci and also built my own 383 stroker and 408 stroker. 90% of cobra owners would prefer the 427 since cubic inches mean more torque (not more HP but more TQ) and it seems more cobra owners like the kick-in-the-pants at low rpm. So if you are a waxer, choose the 427. If you are a racer, lean to a high-revving, high HP lower cubic inch stroker. These revving engines feel weak down low and then start to clean up an sing once you get into the cam butterzone at the 3500rpm+ range.

I should add that you cam make a 383 or 410 torquey as well...it's mainly cam choice.

Andy, I respect your opinion but totally disagree. This is part of the endless BB or SB debate so I'll buy the next round of drinks and we can argue away.

The sound of a big block and small block are very, very different. I am sure you do not believe running a big block relegates me to waxer events only, do you? I love a small block at full sing and have run many. The curve and the bandwidth are simply not the same. If you could duplicate the bore and stroke of a BB in a SB case is it still a SB and what about the BIG inch engines?

Run what you like and enjoy the ride with any engine combo, it would be great to have a different combination for each day of the week!!!

Slick61 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 08:34 AM

I almost hesitate to post on this topic... don't want to perpetuate the whole BB/SB debate. I fought my way through many of these issues when I was shopping for MY beast.

While I absolutely LOVE the sound of the big block, I had concerns about weight and heat. For that reason, a stroked small block made the most sense FOR ME. Most of the strokers I looked at were punched out to around 408 ci... and the more I looked into it, I found the reasons for that. Yes, you CAN go up to 427 ci on a stock Windsor block (and many do), but it might be pushing it, depending on your intended usage.

I bought a 427 Windsor stroker, only after I found out it had a Dart aluminum block- which is quite stout, and can be taken well past 427 ci if desired. It also has a fairly snotty cam and, according to a few big block owners I know, "sounds MEAN". What's perhaps most off-putting is the whine from the timing gear drive.

As for the sound... setup can have an effect on that. Mine is quite loud with a lumpy idle that barely stays running. My neighbors have all said their windows rattle when I'm in the driveway warming it up. You almost need earplugs driving it around town.

But in the end, I got, at least TO ME, an awesome compromise... high power (612 hp/615 tq) in a lightweight package (car weighs 2240 lbs), with a nasty exhaust note. I can also say I've got a 427. An added benefit is plenty of room under the hood for engine work... the space probably helps a little with cooling too. Good luck with whatever you decide...

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vettestr

The sound of a big block and small block are very, very different.

Absolutely correct, even if they have similar displacement. BTW, an iron block FE with enough aluminum on it gets within a hundred pounds of an original 289 engine. Now, where did I put that can of wax.....?

Richie18 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 01:20 PM

Less weight is a lot more fun than more HP. Go with a high hp small block.

Dangerous Doug · #11 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 01:40 PM

A purist would insist on a 427 SO or 428, and happily deal with the consequences of that decision. I think you'd find an FE to be more problematic and parts harder to find than a SB stroker. Uh, I wouldn't put the FE guys into the "waxer" category. Most I've seen are pretty bad-asp Cobras that are driven heartily...

That being said, remember that when you tell people you have a "427" they may call you on it if you actually have a stroked 351W. I remember being at a small Cobra gathering and a guy pointed out his car. I asked what he had under the hood and he replied, "a 427". To which I asked, "A side-oiler?" and he replied with a dispairing shrug, "Uh, no..." He was a bit embaressed, and probably took me for a novice and got caught. Didn't mean to embaress the guy (he did have a nice SPF with a stroked 351W...). Just don't try to snow anyone. It's a small block 427. Respectable. Powerful. But it isn't a purist's FE.

Do a search on T&L. Some of the FFR guys really love them, but I've heard of quality issues. Best to do a little research. I hear good things about Keith Craft and Roush, and have seen some very happy Ford Racing engine owners. Good luck.

DD

mln385 · #12 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

A purist would insist on a 427 SO or 428, and happily deal with the consequences of that decision. I think you'd find an FE to be more problematic and parts harder to find than a SB stroker. Uh, I wouldn't put the FE guys into the "waxer" category. Most I've seen are pretty bad-asp Cobras that are driven heartily...

That being said, remember that when you tell people you have a "427" they may call you on it if you actually have a stroked 351W. I remember being at a small Cobra gathering and a guy pointed out his car. I asked what he had under the hood and he replied, "a 427". To which I asked, "A side-oiler?" and he replied with a dispairing shrug, "Uh, no..." He was a bit embaressed, and probably took me for a novice and got caught. Didn't mean to embaress the guy (he did have a nice SPF with a stroked 351W...). Just don't try to snow anyone. It's a small block 427. Respectable. Powerful. But it isn't a purist's FE.

Do a search on T&L. Some of the FFR guys really love them, but I've heard of quality issues. Best to do a little research. I hear good things about Keith Craft and Roush, and have seen some very happy Ford Racing engine owners. Good luck.

DD

427 CU is 427 CU wether it is a ford or chevy, I have had plenty ask me what is in it and I always tell them a 427....because it is.

I had one guy I told him it was a stroker so he responds so it isn't real so I say sure it is ....it is a real 427 CU not a side oiler or bb.

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie18

Less weight is a lot more fun than more HP. Go with a high hp small block.

FEs will snicker, point their plugs, and laugh at you behind your back....

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 02:30 PM

I think it's a myth the small block handles better. What is FAR more important is how the car is setup in the first place, no matter which motor you run.