first oil change.... should I be worried?

maxum_101 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-10-2009, 09:09 PM

hi all

just wondering if its somewhat normal to have a build up on the magnetic drain plugs, i did my first ouil change on the 351 w stroker motor (392) from ford motorsport approx 700 miles on engine, its like a black slimy gunk but it is magnetic cause when i wipe it off on my finger and go near the magnet again it pulls back to the magnet, also the old oil in the sunlight shows a bit of metalic looking residue in it, i keep reading about crank bearings causing that residue in the oil, now here the question ... for a new engine will it give off residue like im trying to explain, in my oil and on my magnetic drain plugs , is that from the break in ? im scared s--tless that there might be some problems with my engine.

any experience on this would be great

Rick Parker · #2 (**permalink**) 05-10-2009, 09:31 PM

The first change will normally contain magnetic particles and filings from all the reciprocating & rotating parts that rub together such as Rods, Crankshaft, timing gears and chains, cams, and lifters, rings and cylinders. Subsequent changes should be pretty much free of this. This sounds pretty normal.

jdean · #3 (**permalink**) 05-10-2009, 09:37 PM

For a first break-in you can expect to have some dirty metal content in the oil as the rings and cylinders are seating. After break-in the oil should return to normal cleanliness in line with engine time. As long as you dont have any copper colored flakes in it I would not worry yet.

If you are worried, cut the oil filter and look in the residual filter oil, and in the folds of filter material for any copper or aluminum colored flakes that will be present if you have a rod, main or cam bearing on the way to failure. Another option is you can send in a sample of oil for professional chemical analysis. Pegasus Racing offers this, and there are many others. It only costs about $20 bucks and will tell you exactly what kind of wear is going on and whether it is in the normal range.

Otherwise, change the oil and filter and watch it every few hundred miles for a while. Check your magnetic drain plug....it should not have more than a smear of metal sludge on the magnet once the engine is broken in. It should remain cleaner much longer than what you see now.

maxum_101 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:34 AM

phewwww thats a relief to hear, here i was changing the oil thinking nothing of it, then i see all this and im like OH MAN , i will change the oil again after a few hundred miles and see how it looks,

thanks for the input guys

Jerry Clayton · #5 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:38 AM

cut the filter open

madmaxx · #6 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:52 AM

absolutely normal.

maxum_101 · #7 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 05:59 PM

im going to cut open the oil filter, ill take some pics of what i find and post here.

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxum_101

im going to cut open the oil filter, ill take some pics of what i find and post here.

Maxum, FWIW what I have seen on well built big block engines, that have been properly broken in on a dyno, that then had the oil immediately changed and dumped after the break in, and that then had the first "real" oil change taking place around 500 miles. In my experience there will be a glob of magnetic particles that form the consistency of Vaseline and will be about the size of half the nail on your little finger clinging to the magnet on the drain plug; the color will be dark grey. Is that kind of what you are seeing?

Got the Bug · #9 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Maxum, FWIW what I have seen on well built big block engines, that have been properly broken in on a dyno, that then had the oil immediately changed and dumped after the break in, and that then had the first "real" oil change taking place around 500 miles. In my experience there will be a glob of magnetic particles that form the consistency of Vaseline and will be about the size of half the nail on your little finger clinging to the magnet on the drain plug; the color will be dark grey. Is that kind of what you are seeing?

Ditto. I wouldn't take the time to cut open the filter....unless you like oil and metal shavings all over the place.

maxum_101 · #10 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Maxum, FWIW what I have seen on well built big block engines, that have been properly broken in on a dyno, that then had the oil immediately changed and dumped after the break in, and that then had the first "real" oil change taking place around 500 miles. In my experience there will be a glob of magnetic particles that form the consistency of Vaseline and will be about the size of half the nail on your little finger clinging to the magnet on the drain plug; the color will be dark grey. Is that kind of what you are seeing?

yes but more of a black color instead of a grey color

patrickt · #11 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxum_101

yes but more of a black color instead of a grey color

The color is not that important. I think your engine is fine; but if you want to cut your filter open and post some pics it'll give us all something to look at.

maxum_101 · #12 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:56 PM

here are some pics

best i can get with the camera, when i ran a magnet thru the oil the same stuff that was on the magnetic drain plugs stuck to the magnet, also note the cloudy looking oil, that is whats scaring the crap out of me, bearings ?? does this look normal for a first oil change?

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 06:59 PM

I can't tell anything from those pics.

My advice is not to worry about it. Sooner or later, something real will break on your car and then you'll have something to worry over.

olddog · #14 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 07:40 PM

Maxum I hope everyone is right, but your concern and description makes me a bit nervous. I think you should have a trusted mechanic or another club cobra member come take a look at it. Nothing like seeing it in person. Maybe fill out your profile, so people have an idea where you are at. Maybe someone is real close to you.

I don't recall ever having enough metal in the oil to see it, but I'm no expert. If it were me, I would save this oil just in case there are more problems down the road. I would also watch the oil very close after the change. If there is still metal after running it a few minutes, I would change it again and try to flush it out clean. Then watch to see if more builds up. If it is clean after this change and stays clean, everyone is right and your ok.

Good Luck

car4jim · #15 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 07:55 PM

Have you thought about having your oil tested or analysed? Oil testing can tell you what kinds of contamination, what types of metals, etc are in your oil. You may be able to pin point to bearing material, ring material, piston wear, etc. I haven't had this done, but I'm sure someone out there can recommend a lab.

Got the Bug · #16 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I can't tell anything from those pics.

My advice is not to worry about it. Sooner or later, something real will break on your car and then you'll have something to worry over.

Agree...nothing to be concerned about. Who built your motor? Call them tell them what you found. Oil analysis is an interesting idea, but really what action are you going to take when when you get the results?

sparks · #17 (**permalink**) 05-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Its only a small block, I would just let it go. The sooner it breaks the sooner you can get a BB.

Ant · #18 (**permalink**) 05-12-2009, 04:15 AM

It is normal to see metal in a new engine and even in subsequent oil changes, all engines make metal, regular oil/filter changes is the best way of getting rid of any contaminants suspended in the oil, a good engine builder normally recommends a good quality oil and change it often. If your engine is semi race like a lot of CC guys and you work it on the race track or even high spirited road use there will always be some metal.
I pulled the sump off my engine to modify it and noticed scuff marks or lines in the bores, I have been told in a race engine this is normal, and my engine has only had two dyno sessions in total, so I would think this will settle down with a few hundred miles of not to ballistic use before I race it, that would be a major area where the metal comes from!

edwhite7 · #19 (**permalink**) 05-12-2009, 05:34 AM

The dark color of the oil is most likely from assembly lube. I had the same black greasy magnetic stuff on my plug after the first couple of changes. I wouldn't worry to much about that on a new engine. The most likely failure is a bearing and they aren't magnetic. If you see a gold or bronze sheen in the oil then worry. Imagine 24 new rings sliding up and down in 8 new bores for 500 miles, you got to get some wear.

maxum_101 · #20 (**permalink**) 05-12-2009, 04:24 PM

the motor is a crate engine from ford motor sport, 700 miles .
at this point i dont know what to think, i do see a goldish/bronze color in the oil that i drained, it somewhat shows in the pics i posted, im hoping that its not a bearing problem, if it is bearings what am i to see or hear from my engine, what signs, noise? the engine runs great an idels at 800/900 rpm and no noise, oil pres sits at about 40/45 psi at idle, and i put in 20-50 oil in it with a motorsport fl1-hp filter,

anyhow i guess i will just have to wait it out and see what comes of it, and see what comes out of the oil next time i change it,