Newbie - Engine Question

[SPF1061]

Chris -
Everyones comments and observations so far are pretty much spot on. If you've spent months researching options, you should have a pretty good handle on the +/-'s of the different available replicas. SPF is a great choice for your stated intended use. As others have said, call Dennis Olthoff. He is a straight shooter and will point you in the right direction. One observation, if you really intend a lot of extended cruises, gas mileage can become a real factor. I bought SPF1061 new from Dennis 11 years ago. I've logged 63,000 miles. I started out with a 392 Ford Motorsports stroker. "Good" performance. 22mpg is a pretty big deal if you are going to do a lot of long range highway cruising. This was a mild mannered, well behaved motor with a little more oomph than a stock 351. I continually had Dennis make performance mods trying to get a bit more out of it until I grenaded it (36,000 miles) racing at Carolina Motorsports Park. Dennis replaced it with a Roush 427R. BIG performance leap. Lot's more fun to track and drive for short blips. Much less fun as a highway cruiser. 10mpg makes long trips expensive. It is also on the ragged edge running 93 octane. It is much happier when I mix a few gallons of 110 octane into every tank.

[crASH]

Originally Posted by SPF1061

Chris -
It is also on the ragged edge running 93 octane. It is much happier when I mix a few gallons of 110 octane into every tank.

Cobra Braggin'- Just FYI, there's a 100 octane pump close to my house if you ever come to the Raleigh get togethers.

[Cobra Braggin']

Thanks Crash! I'll keep that in mind.

Cobra Braggin'
"Cobra Man For Life"

[Cobra Braggin']

Thanks so much for the tips and reaffirmation comments regarding my questions. Based on everthing I've heard about Dennis Olthoff, I'm sure he'll point me in the right direction with engine choices etc. I know for sure that I plan to take my wife on some long cruises visiting other states across the US so, the mpg will definately be a major factor when making my final decision on which way to ultimately go engine wise. I know I will have some limited track use so I can have that experience but for the most part, I'll use my SPF Cobra for daily use and long cruises. Thanks!!!....

Chris

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by Cobra Braggin'

Thanks so much for the tips and reaffirmation comments regarding my questions. Based on everthing I've heard about Dennis Olthoff, I'm sure he'll point me in the right direction with engine choices etc. I know for sure that I plan to take my wife on some long cruises visiting other states across the US so, the mpg will definately be a major factor when making my final decision on which way to ultimately go engine wise. I know I will have some limited track use so I can have that experience but for the most part, I'll use my SPF Cobra for daily use and long cruises. Thanks!!!....

Chris

At least for me, the gas mileage would be the last thing I would consider.

Our last long trip was over 2500 miles and I averaged 8.5 MPG, but every mile was with a smile on my face.

[Cobra Braggin']

Amen to that!!!! I'm looking forward to having a smile just like as much as possible...

[CHANMADD]

Is it not because the kit manufacturer, would recomend an engine that would likely be the
the most reliable and easy to service , to help maintain the manufacturers reputation.Fe,s seem to be a lot more problomatic than the windsor, not to mention all the performance options available for the Windsor.........just my 2cents:..........
P

[Silverback51]

I'm not a fan of small blocks, but one thing to remember about FE engines. They are old technology, having first come out in 1958 if I remember correctly. Yes, new parts have been designed and built that help out, but the basic building blocks are still old.

[Cobra Braggin']

Understood. Thanks for your 2 cents. I'm not an expert engine guy or car expert by any means, so every little bit of tips/advice helps me a lot!

[mattpatt]

Just 2 more cents for you. I did a very thorough study before buying a new cobra from Lance at Hillbank (great group of people by the way). For me it's an occassional, mildly driven street machine with occassional high spirited street duty (let's say 2000-3000 miles/year). Someday maybe some track training - but not interested in track as a hobby. But I DO appreciate pride of ownership and am very techincially inclined. Given that I bought a replica so trying to match "authentic" wasn't in the cards. So I opted for technical enhancements that still maintain the basic look and spirit of the car. My choice of engines was a Keith Craft SBF all aluminum 427 (554 hp, 580 ft-lbs torque). It's lighter than the 289s that won al the races (~51 - 52% on the rear wheels) - best handling, best acceleration. It is truly a 427 (true to the namesake). The power/weight ratio is ~the same as the originals (less power, less weight) - performance is downright awsome. Costs less than a Roush even though the KC too has very good parts. I got the aluminum block upgrade and it was still a bit less than a Roush (even with shipping). Some folks have said the KC is really rough on the low end. I had them tune the cam down a bit (from the 580 hp catalog version), added a 2-plane air-gap manifold and then added vacuum advance and some idle tuning (not finished with the carb yet) and the engine is quite smooth (5th gear - .83 Tremec) at 40 mph with 275-40x18 tires. At 1200 miles of breakin I'm getting ~15 mph on the highway (8-9 around town). Finally, I decided on KC because they are a single shop - controlled by Keith (but they are a long ways away if there's a problem). I had a few shipping issues and they sent replacement parts out right away - very positive experience with KC. Roush is huge - has many builders so I think they can't control quality as well - BUT they can, and do, quicky handle any problems you have (so I've heard).

Fiinal note. I've had limited dealing with Dennis O (parts and advice) - always top notch. I'm in California and, fortunately, live close to Eric Voss - has done some work for me and is absolutely great.

SPF is, IMHO, one of the top replicas you can own so - congrats on your choice.

And good luck on the rest of the decisions you'll make - but be assured there isn't a decision that's really bad. It's all good.

Matt

[Cobra Braggin']

Thanks Matt for your helpful insight. I really appreciate you and all the other CC members comments. Being a novice with all of this Cobra stuff can be a bit intimidating but because of the CC network, it has eased any anxiety I may have had before. I agree with you that for me, there are no bad choices. All of the choices are good because I'm making them on what's best for me. After all, when I finally do order my new SPF MKIII, it will be my ultimate dream car so what could be better than that... Thanks again.

Chris

[JLip]

Chris, Take it for what it's worth but a number of my buddies that have 427's were always complaining about over heating if they got caught in slow moving traffic, etc. I drove one and there does seem to be a lot of extra weight in the front end but I guess who cares. I ended up putting a 351 Stroker 535hp and Love it! So easy to work on and it Purrrrrrs on the road. Great sound and is a rocket on take off. Who's keeping track but I now stop at every other gas station as opposed to every one. I ended up with A SPF because it seems to have a better re-sale IMHO. Hope some of the purist aren't throwing eggs at me.

[Mother]

All of this "Who makes the best Cobra?" For Canadians, It is a poor question. Our D.O.T. will not allow either kits, or rollers to be imported into Canada. You can import a used car providing that the car was registered 15 years ago or older. They state that the current AC Cobra kits or rollers do not meet our safety requirements, or Canadian Content Requirements. Just how safe are these units? If, the cars are using 15 year plus U.S. safety requirements? As far as I know, there is only one Canadian Manufacturer that has D.O.T. approval and able to be registered, licienced, and insurered. His rollers are not inexpensive. But they are very good.

[twobjshelbys]

A lot of time has passed since the original post, and lots of advice on which engine to get but I would concur with a stroked Windsor is probably right. SPF/Hillbank will try to sway you to Roush. My experience with Roush fuel injected was less than good, and recent tales of high oil consumption scare me A friend has the carb'd version of the same engine in his SPF GT40 (done by Olthoff - good place to go) and he loves it. That said, there are lots of sources for stroked Windsors, so shop around.

Then you have to decide on the displacement. I always thought the 550HP Roush was a little much for the light weight of the Cobra (and several unplanned compression braking events more than confirmed that in my own mind). Someone mentioned a 392. Might be a little more manageable for street use.

Also recall that these are light cars in the rear with lots of torque and HP and that keeping the tires hooked up can be difficult, especially with colt tires on cold pavement. Both of my compression braking events were simply downshifting to make a left turn. My car had some kind of Goodyear Eagles. Supposedly good track tires after they warm up but not good until they do. I've heard Avons are good but consider getting some old style Goodyear Billboards!!!

On the SPF royalty. I don't think it's a huge amount, and I believe it goes to the Children's Foundation anyway. With the comparatively small number of vehicles produced annually, noone's getting rich from it.

[mattpatt]

Another 2 cents worth:

Since my SPF cobra is not an "original", and never will be, I looked for the timeless beautyy of the car from outside but went for performance/practicality under the skin. If Shelby could have put my engine in his 427's he would have - and maybe won some races. I have an all aluminum 351W based 427 (correct ci, AND lighter than the 289's AND more horsepower than the FE original 427's). My street-only SPF car looks like an original, is quite street drivable, AND has about the same power/weight ratio as the originals - plus a wider power curve - as well as a better weight distribution (54% on the rear). My engine happens to be a Keith Craft (554 hp) which I'm completely happy with. All that said I've heard that the big block sound a bit "better" - don't know, but I do love the sound of my car. Obviously, I'm not just a small block fan but a LIGHT small block fan.

Matt

[Cobra Braggin']

Hey Matt. I know it's been quite a while since I made the original post and since your response. But, I just wanted to say thanks for your input. I'm still working on getting the cash for my new SPF MKIII but I have made some conclusions based on your comments and all of the other wise experience Cobra owners here in Club Cobra.


Since I live in NC less than 2 hrs form Dennis Olthoff Racing I have decided before I actually order my SPF, I'll visit him, take a test drive, and take some lessons on how to properly drive and handle these great and powerful machines. Also, I'm going to get my drive train from Keith Craft. I think for the money and service, he's the best.


Because I want my SPF as mostly a daily driver, I'll most likely go with the best small block 351 windsor stroker or something like that. Since I want to be comfortable on the street, and I haven't had lots of experience with really high performance muscle cars, I think 400 to 450 HP and foot pounds of torque is plenty for me. To be honest, I'm not car expert and certainly not a builder. I just love the timeless classic look of the Cobra and the fact that I would be able go really fast when I want too. Thanks again Matt...

Chris
AKA/"Cobra Braggin"

[Great Asp]

OP, I have owned three Superformance Cobras. The first was a 351W with 400 hp, the second with a 351 bored and stroked to a 418, 550 HP. My current SPF has a 496 FE motor with 666 lb-ft torque.

If you have not owned a Cobra before, and you want to drive your car comfortably, a 400+ hp 351W based motor is an easier car to drive than a BB with big torque numbers.

Most of the dealers will direct you to a 351W based motor for the same reason, it is easier to drive without as much chance it will get away from you.

I am not trying to tell you what to buy, only what I know.

LOL at the ERA owners thinking their car is 'more original". Who cares? (besides you?)

Good luck on your build OP!

E

[Cobra Braggin']

Hey E. Your good experience information is much appreciated!!! The fact that you have owned 3 SPF's, means to me that your advice and comments are really coming from an informed place. I can't wait to experience the fun and thills that you and all the other Cobra owners have!

P.S. I also believe your absolutely right, as long as I'm happy with my dream car that all that matters!

Cheers!
Chris

[WardL]

I have the Roush 427 SR and love it. If I had to do it again, I would look at a BOSS 5.0 or the 5.0 Coyote. I don't know what the difference is between the two engines. I dont think there is much weight difference between a SM and a BB. I would chose what you feel is the "best" for you. Forget resale and originality. The originality ship has sailed. No matter what you chose you are in for a great ride! Have fun!

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by WardL

If I had to do it again, I would look at a BOSS 5.0 or the 5.0 Coyote.

How directly will a modern Ford crate engine fit? Will the hood clear? Do the engine mounts align properly?

If so and you're looking to reduce your tinker factor, a modern engine is nice. As with all primarily mechanical systems, things will fail - e.g., distributor and/or cap, and there seems to be a frequent fallout of the MSD (or equivalent) electronic ignitions too. All of that stuff goes away with a Coyote.

How do they deal with the rest of the "Cobra" look and feel? Are there side pipe exhaust systems, etc. for them? Or are they custom from a muffler shop? I'd still want it to SOUND like a Cobra. The ECU on them pretty much depends on O2 sensors before and after the cat, is custom tuning available? And what kind of stuff gets in the way of emissions tests when you do that?

I'm asking because I truly don't know. I know there is a topic somewhere about putting a Coyote in a SPF but I don't think it answered those questions.