Mark III Build

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

I agree, trust me he is aware I am disappointed. But the car that should have been done in late April is not going to be done until late June. If I held it up to revisit the engine it would be late August. It is hard to find a 18 x 12 snow tire.

Just purely from a consumer advocate's point of view, and I do this often as many know here, notwithstanding Patrick sounding off about inflated dyno numbers, I would think engine parts combinations are fairly well-known at this point. Intuitively, you would think there's a well-known combination of "a+b+c" = 600HP.

My apologies, seriously, I'm not trying to be a PITA to anyone. But, I had another poor experience recently when I purchased an item. A completely different situation having nothing to do with cars, but I just get tired of it. So I'm just trying to empathize with you.

Maybe I've reached the "curmudgeon stage." And Patrick can likely empathize with me there, since he's been at this stage for awhile now. I say "likely" because I'm not sure he could show empathy.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Just purely from a consumer advocate's point of view, and I do this often as many know here, notwithstanding Patrick sounding off about inflated dyno numbers, I would think engine parts combinations are fairly well-known at this point. Intuitively, you would think there's a well-known combination of "a+b+c" = 600HP.

My apologies, seriously, I'm not trying to be a PITA to anyone. But, I had another poor experience recently when I purchased an item. A completely different situation having nothing to do with cars, but I just get tired of it. So I'm just trying to empathize with you.

Maybe I've reached the "curmudgeon stage." And Patrick can likely empathize with me there, since he's been at this stage for awhile now. I say "likely" because I'm not sure he could show empathy.

I appreciate the thought. As this point I want to move on. A process that should have been fun was a bit frustrating. This industry never heard the expression, under promise and over deliver.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

A process that should have been fun was a bit frustrating.

Welcome to the world of Cobras.
You got a badass motor built by arguably the best.

[blykins]

Wait until you put sidepipes on it. You'll lose another 100 hp.

Barry is one of my competitors, but I want to speak up on this.

It's a number. Don't discount the whole car and engine build experience because of a number. It's a dyno number. It's a dyno number that would change if you drove a couple of hours in another direction and put it on a different brand of dyno. Put it on a Superflow and most likely you'll see another 5%. I would rather have a 550 hp engine that out-performs a buddy's 600-625 hp engine.

There's nothing wrong with conservative dyno numbers....you will most likely clean out every ditch in Detroit anyway. Most guys have no clue what 550-600 hp is like in a 2400 lb car with a 90" wheelbase.

Another note....

As an engine builder, I've learned to "feel out" customers. This means pick up on queues in their emails, phone calls, etc. Some customers will tell you that they want 600 hp, but they keep stressing that they want it to be very streetable, idle at 500 rpm and be able to pull a horse trailer at the same time. If you spend your entire time driving at 2000-2500 rpm, another 30 hp at 6000 won't mean much, but how it behaves at those low rpms is going to be paramount.

And another note....

It absolutely burns my butt when guys jump and down saying that they have to have the engine immediately, but months later, they are still waiting on the car. You don't want to the engine to be sitting while waiting for the car. I've got guys who 2-3 years later (no lie) are still trying to get the car finished. Doesn't work like that...

I've been contracted to build a 482 for a forum member. It was nice to hear him say, "I will not need the engine until the beginning of next year, so let's just go at a slower pace." It was also nice to hear him say, "I'm going to spend most of my driving in the 2500-4000 rpm range, so let's favor more streetability and torque." I patted him on the back over email.

You have a very nice engine. And yes, Barry is one of my major competitors, but all engine builders "get" what the others are going through and sometimes it doesn't hurt to speak up.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by blykins

Wait until you put sidepipes on it. You'll lose another 100 hp.

Barry is one of my competitors, but I want to speak up on this.

It's a number. Don't discount the whole car and engine build experience because of a number. It's a dyno number. It's a dyno number that would change if you drove a couple of hours in another direction and put it on a different brand of dyno. Put it on a Superflow and most likely you'll see another 5%. I would rather have a 550 hp engine that out-performs a buddy's 600-625 hp engine.

There's nothing wrong with conservative dyno numbers....you will most likely clean out every ditch in Detroit anyway. Most guys have no clue what 550-600 hp is like in a 2400 lb car with a 90" wheelbase.

Another note....

As an engine builder, I've learned to "feel out" customers. This means pick up on queues in their emails, phone calls, etc. Some customers will tell you that they want 600 hp, but they keep stressing that they want it to be very streetable, idle at 500 rpm and be able to pull a horse trailer at the same time. If you spend your entire time driving at 2000-2500 rpm, another 30 hp at 6000 won't mean much, but how it behaves at those low rpms is going to be paramount.

And another note....

It absolutely burns my butt when guys jump and down saying that they have to have the engine immediately, but months later, they are still waiting on the car. You don't want to the engine to be sitting while waiting for the car. I've got guys who 2-3 years later (no lie) are still trying to get the car finished. Doesn't work like that...

I've been contracted to build a 482 for a forum member. It was nice to hear him say, "I will not need the engine until the beginning of next year, so let's just go at a slower pace." It was also nice to hear him say, "I'm going to spend most of my driving in the 2500-4000 rpm range, so let's favor more streetability and torque." I patted him on the back over email.

You have a very nice engine. And yes, Barry is one of my major competitors, but all engine builders "get" what the others are going through and sometimes it doesn't hurt to speak up.

It all boils down to lack of communication. If it was not going to hit the number it should have been pointed out it plain terms long before we are standing in front of the dyno cell.

I asked for something and paid the bill, no complaint on price, no negotiating. Why come up short? Was that last 40hp going to make it undrivable?