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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2021, 09:39 PM
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Post MSO Acquisition

So I've come into possession of a 5000 mile Shelby Cobra built in 1999. I'm not sure if it's a Superformance or Hi-Tech Automotive (Pre Superformance) car from South Africa.

I've posted a picture of the chassis if anyone can provide some insight?
I'm assuming it is a Superformance, owing to the Distribution tag in the engine bay being from Ohio, and at that time I'm guessing Ron Rosen or Dean would have even perhaps sold this car. But, not sure....

More importantly I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the best direction to obtain a new copy of the MSO that would have been provided with this car.

Hillbank Motors/ Sperformance has not been much help, even in obtaining new parts, it seems like they just don't care.

I'm really impressed with this community, some great info shared that I've come across, and so here I am reaching out to see If anyone could provide some insight.

Greatly appreciated
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:51 PM
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K199 AM 1581 is the number showing on the frame.
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Old 08-06-2021, 12:32 AM
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And the url for the pic of the car is?


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Old 08-06-2021, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconR View Post
So I've come into possession of a 5000 mile Shelby Cobra built in 1999. I'm not sure if it's a Superformance or Hi-Tech Automotive (Pre Superformance) car from South Africa.

I've posted a picture of the chassis if anyone can provide some insight?
I'm assuming it is a Superformance, owing to the Distribution tag in the engine bay being from Ohio, and at that time I'm guessing Ron Rosen or Dean would have even perhaps sold this car. But, not sure....

More importantly I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the best direction to obtain a new copy of the MSO that would have been provided with this car.

Hillbank Motors/ Sperformance has not been much help, even in obtaining new parts, it seems like they just don't care.

I'm really impressed with this community, some great info shared that I've come across, and so here I am reaching out to see If anyone could provide some insight.

Greatly appreciated
Do you have a title? I am pretty sure in Ohio, you have to surrender the MSO when you get the title.
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Old 08-06-2021, 04:39 AM
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Thanks, I didn't know that was the case in Ohio. I do have the title.
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Old 08-06-2021, 04:49 AM
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There is only ONE MSO per car. It is the chassis' "birth certificate" and is surrendered to the DMV when titled and registered. You may be able to get a photocopy of the original MSO (we keep copies for our records) but you CANNOT get another original MSO.

We can help with parts.
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Old 08-06-2021, 07:00 AM
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Certainly, I understand that to be the case. A photo copy of the MSO would be great, but the original dealer at the time is no longer around, so the paper trail is lost. I only would have thought that Superformance/ Hi-Tech Automotive SA would have kept a record and somehow could acquire a copy from them. Regarding parts, ok I'll give your shop a call, whom should I ask for? Thanks.
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Old 08-06-2021, 08:25 AM
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The MSO is "title number zero". There is only one original, ever. If it has been registered the MSO, just like subsequent titles, are surrendered to the DMV to get the new title.

If you are the first owner of a car (excluding kits where it is the norm) it is rare to get the MSO. Most dealers handle the titling of the car the first time. If you buy from an out of state dealer you will probably get the MSO to register in your state. Heaven help you if you lose it. It takes an act of the manufacturer to get a replacement.

Having a copy of the MSO is interesting history, but for your car, not a key part of you getting it titled.
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Last edited by twobjshelbys; 08-06-2021 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 08-06-2021, 08:33 AM
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Thanks Tony,

In my case I'm looking to prove that the Cobra was built in SA, for Boarder Security purpose and also avoid paying duties. But the headache of the hunt for such a document is almost worth the duties price tag. Is what it is.

Cheers
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Old 08-06-2021, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconR View Post
Thanks Tony,

In my case I'm looking to prove that the Cobra was built in SA, for Boarder Security purpose and also avoid paying duties. But the headache of the hunt for such a document is almost worth the duties price tag. Is what it is.

Cheers
The MSO would only show the non running, roller chassis, it would not show an actual finished automobile. As such, the chassis/roller/kit is not quite what the border "Guardia" (you have yet to specify what border) will be looking for. Instead, they will be looking for a true date of build of the finished car, not the MSO, which should assist you a little more in your en devour.

Bill S.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconR View Post
Certainly, I understand that to be the case. A photo copy of the MSO would be great, but the original dealer at the time is no longer around, so the paper trail is lost. I only would have thought that Superformance/ Hi-Tech Automotive SA would have kept a record and somehow could acquire a copy from them. Regarding parts, ok I'll give your shop a call, whom should I ask for? Thanks.
contact is here: https://www.timemachineauto.com/parts-accessories/

We have MANY more parts than is shown on the web and in fact recently bought out the parts inventory that was from the Rosens.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:47 AM
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agreed hillbank is a joke in terms of customer service...
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
The MSO would only show the non running, roller chassis, it would not show an actual finished automobile. As such, the chassis/roller/kit is not quite what the border "Guardia" (you have yet to specify what border) will be looking for. Instead, they will be looking for a true date of build of the finished car, not the MSO, which should assist you a little more in your en devour.

Bill S.
DeaconR's profile shows Ontario, Canada - so it's probably the USA / Canada border.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:44 AM
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Thanks Tony,

In my case I'm looking to prove that the Cobra was built in SA, for Boarder Security purpose and also avoid paying duties. But the headache of the hunt for such a document is almost worth the duties price tag. Is what it is.

Cheers
Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) will, of course, be looking for confirmation the vehicle was first completed / registered at least 15 years ago. The 1999 manufacturing date is irrelevant if it wasn't completed and titled at least 15 years ago. You will have to PROVE that - the title will work if it's at least 15 years old, but in my case it wasn't and I had to jump through some flaming hoops and perform a couple of unnatural acts to validate its age. That was brought on at least partially because Michigan (where it was originally titled) destroys their records after 10 years. It then went to Alabama and Connecticut, where it was titled twice between 2004 and 2014. Thankfully Saskatchewan only requires a Bill of Sale to register the vehicle - no Title, no MSO.

Based upon what I can find, vehicles built in South Africa aren't exempt from the 6.1% duty, but cars made in the USA are exempt. I went through this process with my car which had a Michigan VIN. CBSA initially read the state-issued VIN starting with "MI" as "M1". M1 refers to Malta, and that attracts the same 6.1% duty. Once I had confirmation from the Michigan Secretary of State as to how to 'decode' their VIN, CBSA accepted it and it came in to Canada duty-free.

You'll also need to pay HST on the Canadian value of the vehicle (USA $$ x exchange rate).
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Last edited by cycleguy55; 08-06-2021 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 08-06-2021, 03:49 PM
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Car was built on 1999 and is number 581.
Let me see if I have any other info available
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Old 08-06-2021, 04:28 PM
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Default another way to title it

you can register it in New Hampshire with a bill of sale, pay the tax and get a plate. You car will be registered to your home address and it takes about 6wks to do it. Down the road you can take your registration to Ohio and get it titled if you want. Hagerty Ins will insure it.
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Old 08-06-2021, 05:05 PM
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Thanks Blas, Cycle Guy, Saltshaker and all for the comments and input.

Well the goal was/is to get this car into Canada.
I only have a certificate of title show its age, being a 1999. Well beyond the 15years requirement.

I was led to believe that if I could simply show the title with date of car, and that that would be acceptable to the CBSA.

CarFAX reports also show no title/ registration beyond 2010.

Keeping things legal, anyone have any ideas?
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Old 08-06-2021, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) will, of course, be looking for confirmation the vehicle was first completed / registered at least 15 years ago. The 1999 manufacturing date is irrelevant if it wasn't completed and titled at least 15 years ago. You will have to PROVE that - the title will work if it's at least 15 years old, but in my case it wasn't and I had to jump through some flaming hoops and perform a couple of unnatural acts to validate its age. That was brought on at least partially because Michigan (where it was originally titled) destroys their records after 10 years. It then went to Alabama and Connecticut, where it was titled twice between 2004 and 2014. Thankfully Saskatchewan only requires a Bill of Sale to register the vehicle - no Title, no MSO.

Based upon what I can find, vehicles built in South Africa aren't exempt from the 6.1% duty, but cars made in the USA are exempt. I went through this process with my car which had a Michigan VIN. CBSA initially read the state-issued VIN starting with "MI" as "M1". M1 refers to Malta, and that attracts the same 6.1% duty. Once I had confirmation from the Michigan Secretary of State as to how to 'decode' their VIN, CBSA accepted it and it came in to Canada duty-free.

You'll also need to pay HST on the Canadian value of the vehicle (USA $$ x exchange rate).
Thanks for this Brian! Great insight. Looks like I'm in the same boat.
I have a Experian Auto Check Report.
This report actually shows Company manufacturer / VIN of car / Date of Car / Date of first Tittle and Assembled.
Would this report check out? I've just acquired it.

Last edited by DeaconR; 08-06-2021 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 08-06-2021, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltshaker View Post
you can register it in New Hampshire with a bill of sale, pay the tax and get a plate. You car will be registered to your home address and it takes about 6wks to do it. Down the road you can take your registration to Ohio and get it titled if you want. Hagerty Ins will insure it.
Jon
Thanks Jon,

If I understand correctly are you saying that I can register this car in the US (in New Hampshire with NH plates) and would be documented under my Canadian residence address. Which would allow me to bring it over the boarder and keep in Canada.
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Old 08-06-2021, 07:25 PM
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Default Canada

I would call motor vehicle and ask to be sure. Good Luck
Jon
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