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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2016, 05:08 AM
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I've been using Joe Gibbs HR oil but may switch back to Rotella 10W-40 on at least some of my cars. Rotella is still high in ZDDP.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2016, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC View Post
I've been using Joe Gibbs HR oil but may switch back to Rotella 10W-40 on at least some of my cars. Rotella is still high in ZDDP.
Sorry to say, but due to the new diesel emission standards, and the sensitivity of the emissions control systems on diesels to ash, the zinc levels in Rotella and other diesel oils have been reduced to somewhere in the 900-1000 PPM range.

Ken

Last edited by Y22C; 11-21-2016 at 06:51 AM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2016, 09:25 AM
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I use Valvoline VR-1 10-30 Conventional.

Although lengthy this article has some enlightening tests results and cautions toward adding aftermarket oil additives, max ZDDP levels, racing oil ZDDP levels on the street, etc...

Section 11, has the main oil results.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

Joe Gibbs Oil has some strong feelings about the film strength testing the industry performs and I can understand the simple one arm bandit type test (used in article above). Although not truly indicative of all the areas an engine subjects oil to, it does give a cheap "apples to apples" test, VS funds required to support a NYC Cab operation wear test or a slew of test cell engines running on dynos at varying load/speeds for weeks on end.
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...y-oil-testing/

And a side note for those switching to Diesel oil
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...el-oil-changed
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Last edited by spdbrake; 11-21-2016 at 12:22 PM.. Reason: added items
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y22C View Post
Sorry to say, but due to the new diesel emission standards, and the sensitivity of the emissions control systems on diesels to ash, the zinc levels in Rotella and other diesel oils have been reduced to somewhere in the 900-1000 PPM range.

Ken
I'm still seeing 1100 ppm phosphorous and 1200 ppm zinc - at least in the CJ-4. I understood from this guy that it's phosphorous they have to limit and zinc isn't an issue and often isn't even reported. But - something to keep an eye on. I do like Joe Gibbs - it seems to have really good clinging properties.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...-corvettes.pdf
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:16 PM
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That is why racing oil can have higher levels as new cars and emissions are harmed by ZDDP levels. Think even the diesel products are getting changed as regulations increase and emission controls widened. Newer cars are also designed with roller this and roller that so the need for ZDDP is also not required.

Racing oils like racing gas (Cam II) fall into different regulatory restrictions.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC View Post
I'm still seeing 1100 ppm phosphorous and 1200 ppm zinc - at least in the CJ-4. I understood from this guy that it's phosphorous they have to limit and zinc isn't an issue and often isn't even reported. But - something to keep an eye on. I do like Joe Gibbs - it seems to have really good clinging properties.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...-corvettes.pdf
I sit corrected, you are correct on the levels.

I grabbed the wrong analysis sheet.

ken
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:00 PM
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I use Valvoline VR-1 10W30...

Phil
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:47 PM
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Brad Penn 20W-50.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:37 PM
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If you have not already, you might want to go over to 540 Rat's Motor Oil Test Data site. The blog is huge, somewhere around 390 pages if you download it — but quite good.

If you search the site for Zinc you will find some quite interesting information with the just the first two hits (not to mention all the others). Additionally if you search WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST he ranks the oils by film strength from highest to lowest. One of the interesting items is the effect of the commercial additive Prolong.

I think you will find the work he has done quite interesting and equally useful. Additionally if your print driver allows, you can print the entire blog to your hard disk as a searchable PDF file.

Hope this helps.


Ed
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:04 PM
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I went pretty deep into the oil rabbit hole. There is a HUGE amount of mythology and while there's a lot of science, it's proprietary so it's pretty tough to separate the wheat from the chaff.

One member of our Cobra Club is a retired R&D oil that specialized in performance oil development, including coordinating with sponsored race cars to get them the oil they wanted/needed. Back then the preference was Delo 15W40 diesel oil which had a 1200 ppm ZDDP concentration. Chevron has reformulated Delo and replaced most ZDDP with other anti-wear additives, so his recommendation was Delo plus a ZDDP additive.

I did some more research and discovered that Shell Rotella 15W40 still has 1200 ppm ZDDP, so that's what I will be using on my flat hydraulic tappet big block. Here is the email exchange I had with the Shell tech expert. I don't understand why Chevron felt compelled to lower their ZDDP while Rotella is still at 1200 ppm?
Dear sirs,
I need a recommendation for engine oil.

I'm having a Ford FE motor built and the engine builder recommends hydraulic flat tappets for reliability given the relatively mild cam he's using:
Intake Duration: 274 (230 @ 0.050")
Exhaust Duration: 286 (236 @ 0.050")
Intake valve lift: 0.560"
Exhaust valve lift: 0.560"
Lobe separation: 110 degrees

What oil do you recommend? I'd prefer not to have to use a ZDDP booster, although that is an option and may be more cost effective than some of the specialized race oils available. I understand the 15W40 Rotella T4 diesel oil used to have higher zinc, but does it still have adequate ZDDP to provide good lubrication for the motor?

From: shelltechnical-us@shell.com
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 6:51:33 AM
Subject: RE: Oil Recommendation for Ford FE Engine with Hydraulic Flat Tappets

Hi Evan,

For the flat tappets, I’d use the Rotella as it does have more zinc/phosphorus than gasoline engine oils. The Zinc is 1200 ppm for most grades including Rotella T4 15W-40.

As for the numbers you’ve provided, I can’t correlate that to a zinc requirement. Your cam manufacturer will have break in instructions and will probably require extra anti-wear additives during break in.

Regards,

Keith Perry

Shell Technical Information

(800) 237-8645 Option 3, 1

Email: shelltechnical-us@shell.com

Technical data sheets and SDS for current products may be found at: www.epc.shell.com
By the way, the retired oil engineer did not have any kind words for 540 Rat's pseudo science (I was pretty impressed with his smoke and mirrors, but they were quickly debunked by an expert).

The information on BobistheOilGuy seems pretty solid. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ I'd also recommend emailing the oil tech lines--I got good information from Chevron and Shell.

If you don't like the idea of running diesel oil, the Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline VR1, etc. also have zinc in the right range (seems 1000 to 1500 is the sweet spot--less and there's not enough protection if the parts "kiss", more and you run the risk of surface degradation from ZDDP causing surface microcracking). A gallon of Rotella is just a little more than a quart of the specialty oils, however, so I'm going to give it a shot.
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Last edited by ACHiPo; 07-27-2018 at 04:12 PM..
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2018, 01:23 AM
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I just use ordinary off-the-shelf oil and add ZDDPlus with each oil change, one bottle for each 4 to 5 quarts of oil. Each bottle costs $8.30.

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Last edited by 520SC; 07-30-2018 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 520SC View Post
I just use ordinary off-the-shelf oil and add ZDDPlus with each oil change, one bottle for each 4 to 5 quarts of oil. Each bottle costs $8.30.

That'll work. Unfortunately I'd need two bottles per oil change for my 8 qt sump, which makes it a little more expensive (although a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild!)
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:07 AM
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FYI....
She’ll Rotella for Diesels
T-4 no change......15w40
T-5 new oil for new Diesels 5w40 Synthetic
T6 no change ....5w40 Synthetic

Same with Mobil Delvac....
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:31 PM
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Valvoline VR1 has 1400ppm of zinc, and you can get it at any parts store.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:23 PM
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I have been using Royal Purple HPS 20w-50
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:28 PM
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Default PTH Racing Oil

I use PTH Racing oil.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have a financial interest in PTH.

PTH Racing Oil’s base stock is a 100% synthetic blend of Group IV (PAO) and Group V (Polyesters). PTH’s oil has high levels of zinc, phosphorous, and other additives to prevent premature wear, and reduce friction. Zinc and phosphorous are critical on high lift high acceleration solid lifter camshaft engines. PTH also uses high levels of calcium both for its detergent properties and very important for Cobra owners, acid neutralization. Acid neutralization is important for controlling internal engine corrosion. Where PTH oil really shines is in High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity tests. HTHS is a measure of how the oil will break down under high temperature and high shear. These additives coupled with an outstanding HTHS make PTH oils especially good for endurance race engines, high performance street and high performance/racing boat engines. Due to the high additive levels, PTH’s oil is unsuitable for engines equipped with catalytic converters.

PTH Racing Oil is available in three weights, 5W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.

www.PTHOil.com
www.facebook.com/PTHOIL/

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Last edited by Tom Kirkham; 07-31-2018 at 08:13 PM.. Reason: added photo
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:40 PM
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+1 for Joe Gibbs XP4...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:21 PM
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I use Gibbs HR2 - conventional. I buy it by the case from my local Orielly store. Costs me about $8.50 a quart. I’m running a stroked center Oiler with solid lifters.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:57 PM
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I know this thread is stale, but unless you pull a sample for testing you're just guessing.
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Old 02-05-2021, 06:33 AM
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Always wanted to have the oil tested. Can you recommend a site that explains what the results mean for the uninformed. Have been using Delo on new engine for 5 years. No indication of any issues.
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