Toploader Oil Leak.. Help !

[desmo]

Hello.

First, I’m french and I'm sorry but it’s very difficult for me to explain my problem in english !

I own a Kirkham Cobra powered by a Shelby 427 FE Side Oiler (strocked to 482ci, and prepared by Keith Craft Racing). The gearbox, a Ford Toploader 4 speed, has been provided by David Kee.

I have many problems with the clutch and especially with the hydraulic throwout bearing, the centerforce, the seals and gaskets....!!

- I have some leaks to the throwout bearing
- Since I change my clutch (Mc Leod plate #360821, Mc Leod disc #260863, Mc Leod steel flywheel #463215 ) the centerforce is not really appropriate
- Yesterday I also noticed a significant oil leak under the car. I think it comes from the front of the gearbox (sealing problem at the hydraulic throwout bearing ?).

I think I have to change the centerforce, seals and gaskets on the hydraulic throwout bearing and the gearbox... but I do not know where to order parts ( no response from david kee).

Could you please help me ?
Thanks

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[RICK LAKE]

Desmo Lets start here
You have an oil leak.
Is the oil low in the motor or the clutch fluid container?
What color is the oil?
If the oil or fluid is missing from the motor, than a rear main seal leak
If the fluid is missing from the clutch fluid container either the seals are leaking or the lines are not tight. After you swapped the clutch with the Mcleod stuff and reassemblied it Did you fasten the 2 lines to the bell housing? If not with the motor running it will cut the lines and have clutch bearing failure.
Start with checking the fittings for being tight
Where the elbows are, there should be a tape or sealer to prevent any leaks when pressure is applied. If this checks out OK the next thing would be to put the bell housing back on the motor and measure the distance between the pressure plate fingers and the lip of the bellhousing there the trans sits. Then measure from the face of the trans to the end of the hydro bearing. There is a spec in your info on installation. If not Goggle it for the correct spec. You may be over extending the hydro bearing and need a spacer. to stop over extending. Does the clutch pedal have a stop under or behind the pedal. You may need one.
We really need to locate the oil leak and which part is leaking. They have black lights and dyes you can add to any oil to find leaks.
Lets look at 1 problem at a time, start with the clutch and get this checked.
You can also run the motor without the trans and check for a rear main seal leak. Just put the jack under the pan with a block of wide wood to support the motor. 5 minute should show you the leak if it is the rear main seal.
You picture show everything is dry, Did you clean it off? If there is a leak with the trans, David K. can walk you through this. Good luck a couple of more pictures would help, before and after removal. Rick L.

[wolf k]

Desmo, Your photo shows the throwout bearing extended, it should not be at rest. The bearing that actually presses the clutch fingers is missing, do you have that? Clutch fluid is the same as brake fluid, very light. Transmission oil for a toploader is thick and smelly.
The tape that Rick mentions at the elbows does not apply here, because those fittings you have swivel. But also, has he mentions, the throw out bearing could have been overextended and failed. This is common without a stop. The weights on the centerforce clutches have also been known to interfere with some throwout bearings. Did David Kee sell you the clutch and hydraulic throwout bearing as a package? I have read your other posts and it sounds like you have had clutch problems for a while. Do you trust your installer?

[desmo]

Thanks for you response.
I’m opening the gearbox and I'll take some pictures…
The leak is Transmission oil, I'm sure of that.
I think the leak is near the hydro throwhout bearing.

[desmo]

Thanks for you response.
I’m opening the gearbox and I'll take some pictures…
The leak is Transmission oil, I'm sure of that.
I think the leak is near the hydro throwhout bearing.

[wolf k]

Desmo, sorry I think I am wrong about your throw out bearing. There is not an internal spring inside the throw out bearing on that model to return it. It may be fine if there is no leakage. Good luck on your transmission leak, parts are readily available.

[desmo]

My leak comes from a seal in the hydraulic throwout bearing. I will take this opportunity to change all the O rings, seals and gaskets from the throwhout bearing and replace the centerforce. I hope I m using the right words ! ;-)

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[RICK LAKE]

desmo Des you need to have a stop for the clutch pedal, I think you have over extended it causing this leak.
What fluid are you using for the clutch?
Are you using the same fluid for the brakes?
There is a special fluid just for clutch systems.
I had problems with my hydro clutch setup and went to and external slave and master setup which I have had no failures in the last 14 years.
Clean off everything and reassembly this setup with new seals. Make sure you have the problem fixed before installing a new clutch. If fluid is all really on the Centerforce unit, it's junk. They are junk anyway. You are going with a better clutch assembly. An issue with the setup you have now is the problem of shifting with the weights on the pressure plate loading the forks of the diapham. Too much pressure to the hydro bearing causing the leak through an "o" ring. Remove the weights and cut off the ring for the weights. The clutch will work fine for testing. This could have caused the problem in the first place. Did you measure the different between thrown out bearing and fingers on pressure plate to get the correct distance???
How far does the pedal move before you feel engagement of the clutch? You want about 1" before starting to load the system. This should keep the bearing from riding on the pressure plate forks and causing pre wear. Pictures helped alot. Rick L.

[RICK LAKE]

Desmo If that fluid is trans fluid, it's the front seal or the housing to the case. Dave has gaskets to replace if needed. We used to just clean everything and RTV the housing to the case. Just check and make sure the input shaft doesn't have alot of side to side play. Ask Dave for the spec.
Check also that the bellhousing is true to the crank of the motor. I see what looks like blueing of the end of the input shaft. I put a thick grease in there to help keep this lubed and free spinning. Just a thin coat. Thats it for now. Rick L.

[desmo]

Who is "Dave" ?
I need to replace all the seals and gaskets from the hydraulic throwout bearing, the "big seal" (I don't know the exact term) you see on the third picture, and the seal at the rear of the gearbox.
I tried to contact David Kee (email, phone, email...) but no answer ! I tried Summit Racing but does not have ! Do you know where I can order these parts ?

Thanks for your help

[wolf k]

Dave is David Kee. Your throw out bearing is a McLeod, try them.