Tko600 Warning!!!!

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by Eljaro

I would try to get this issue settled in MINUTES and get the problem off this Forum ASAP.
Dont repair the broken TKO but send this guy a new transmission and fight the cost out with TREMEC. They will listen to you!
Keep the damage to you company to a minimum!

That's why he posted it here and other forums to try to bully them into a decision more in his favor after lying to them about the circumstances.

If he had hit the wall at the track and told state farm it happened on the street would he be getting any support here? NOPE! Would his insurance pay to repair the car knowing it was on the track?? HE!! NO. You take the car to the track and it's all on you.
I've put over 4400 miles on my TKO600 with an engine that makes over 600ft. lbs and had no problem what so ever. Last month when I made over a dozen runs down the drag strip in one night I understood that if I broke it I bought it.

Quit your whining and accept the offer that was extended and move on.

[Greg Haile]

JEEEEZZ - I just installed the exact same setup from Keisler and I'll be pushing 550HP. They charged me 90 bucks to do what they call a "quality check" prior to shipping. I was told they will not stand behind the tranny without it, and now they're brushing you off??? Its also unbelievable that Tremec will not stand behind their dealer. I never would have used them if I would have read your story first. I would like to believe we have strength in numbers and can have an impact. I'll go somewhere else from now on.

Greg

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

JEEEEZZ - I just installed the exact same setup from Keisler and I'll be pushing 550HP. They charged me 90 bucks to do what they call a "quality check" prior to shipping. I was told they will not stand behind the tranny without it, and now they're brushing you off??? Its also unbelievable that Tremec will not stand behind their dealer. I never would have used them if I would have read your story first. I would like to believe we have strength in numbers and can have an impact. I'll go somewhere else from now on.

Greg

One of biggest benifits to our quality check is the presurre decay leaktest machine we use. We do this to all the trannys wether they are just a bare unit or a modified unit before thay leave here. We also no longer charge for this.

You guys still aren't getting the fact that this guy tried to decieve us at first,
because he knew he screwed up. We bend over backwards for all customers and offered him a deal as well. All you guys seem to believe is what he said.

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

You guys still aren't getting the fact that this guy tried to decieve us at first,
because he knew he screwed up. We bend over backwards for all customers and offered him a deal as well. All you guys seem to believe is what he said.

I get it. You think he broke the transmission by not using it correctly. You think he told you he was accelerating down the road, then later said he had the car at a track, and this makes your case that it was misused...because it was at a track. Well hell, I'd leave that part out in my story too. Why? Because you'd jump to conclusions.

I get it. He raced it. It broke. Maybe he broke it. I just don't agree that this makes any difference from a customer service perspective. Bottom line is you have an extremely unhappy customer and are in a position where you could solve the problem at a minimal cost and inconvenience to both of you. Instead, you've spent considerable time and resources pointing the finger in order to not warranty the product. He has to R&R the thing and presumably pay half of the shipping at a minimum...nobody does that for fun; I just don't see the motive or what he has to gain here. Your cost on the parts and labor is far less than what you've lost already by creating an unhappy customer. I'd just fix it and be done with it; or get all your stuff back and show him the door. If for no other reason than to stop my company name from being displayed in questionable light.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

I get it. You think he broke the transmission by not using it correctly. You think he told you he was accelerating down the road, then later said he had the car at a track, and this makes your case that it was misused...because it was at a track. Well hell, I'd leave that part out in my story too. Why? Because you'd jump to conclusions.

I get it. He raced it. It broke. Maybe he broke it. I just don't agree that this makes any difference from a customer service perspective. Bottom line is you have an extremely unhappy customer and are in a position where you could solve the problem at a minimal cost and inconvenience to both of you. Instead, you've spent considerable time and resources pointing the finger in order to not warranty the product. He has to R&R the thing and presumably pay half of the shipping at a minimum...nobody does that for fun; I just don't see the motive or what he has to gain here. Your cost on the parts and labor is far less than what you've lost already by creating an unhappy customer. I'd just fix it and be done with it; or get all your stuff back and show him the door. If for no other reason than to stop my company name from being displayed in questionable light.

1st question I have to ask is are dating this guys's sister?

Seriously there are alot of things that aren't clear here. We brought the transmission back here. A Tremec rep and a member of our engineering staff
looked over the transmission. We found the problem we were told by Tremec it wasn't covered. We offered at our expense the labor and a wholesale price on the parts. He shipped it to us we shipped it back to him free of charge per his instructions. This is the 3rd time I have stated this. Are you reading between the lines only commiting to memory what you want too. A guy earlier posted about electronic parts eluding to the fact that it was the customers fault yet he replaced it no problem. When your dealing with a couple of 3 dollar parts, I would do it too. We are talking about several hundreds of dollars worth parts. This problem never occurs I could see it if it was on a regular basis. Even after the fact we found out he was trying to deceive us we still offered to fix it. The offer still stands. I sincerly hope if something like this happens to you, you will fight like the big dog you are in this fight. My kudos to you

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

1st question I have to ask is are dating this guys's sister?

No, and I'm not posting from his IP address either.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

Seriously there are alot of things that aren't clear here. We brought the transmission back here. A Tremec rep and a member of our engineering staff
looked over the transmission. We found the problem we were told by Tremec it wasn't covered.

So Tremec decided not to honor the warranty claim. In other words, you won't honor the claim because they won't. Got it. If Tremecs biggest distributor said "Hey guys, we want to make good on this for this customer even though the guy probably broke it...help us out here", are you telling me they'd say NO? You're right, there's more to the story.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

We offered at our expense the labor and a wholesale price on the parts. He shipped it to us we shipped it back to him free of charge per his instructions. This is the 3rd time I have stated this. Are you reading between the lines only commiting to memory what you want too.

Nope, I'm not committing any of it to memory. That's what the computer is for. What I'm suggesting is you should just fix the thing free of charge and make this go away in the sake of good customer service. Why? It hurts you less. Now I'm repeating myself. It must be contageous.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

A guy earlier posted about electronic parts eluding to the fact that it was the customers fault yet he replaced it no problem. When your dealing with a couple of 3 dollar parts, I would do it too. We are talking about several hundreds of dollars worth parts.

That was me. Now it's you who have a memory problem. IT IS contageous! And, by the way, the product sells for $479, and to give one away costs me over $300; which I've done 6 times since the product introduction in 1999. I've recouped much more than that in advertisement-free referral sales.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

This problem never occurs I could see it if it was on a regular basis. Even after the fact we found out he was trying to deceive us we still offered to fix it. The offer still stands. I sincerly hope if something like this happens to you, you will fight like the big dog you are in this fight. My kudos to you

If you truly believe he grenaded the thing, or could even PROVE it, I still say it's cheaper to offer the benefit of the doubt and fix the thing free of charge, make a happy customer...and get referrals and kudos instead of this kind of attention. Maybe it's a matter of principle to you. Personally, I'm not that proud...if it costs me money, I do whatever costs me the least in the long run...even if it means burying my pride to make someone else happy.

[trularin]

I just swapped out my toploader for a TKO600. I turned about 500 miles on it before I cranked it up.

I had no problems.

I would have to ask some of the same questions here, what did Tremec say?

BTW, I got my stuff from JimiG and they have been great.

[Jimi G]

First of all in order to be able to open up Tremec trannies, without voiding the warranty, you have to be an authorized repair center, which we at Standard Transmission are, and just about the only one in the nation. Secondly, you have to be careful where you purchase these transmissions from, alot of times you will get what seems to be good cus. service before the sale. But after that you find out either they didn't know what they were talking about, which I believe is the case here, or they have forgotten you just spent several thousand dollars with them and could care less about your little questions or concerns. Unless, of course, you are wanting another tranny and then they are your best friend again. You would be very suprised if you were to search different forums about the Company being discussed, you find alot of the same issues with them, from a lot of different people. I am not here to bash another company, I would think it would be in anyones best interest to research a company before makeing a large purchase like this. I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you this the service I provide my customers is the most important thing I can provide them. With good cus. service the sales and everything else will just fall into place. But that's just my opinion for what it is worth. jimig@standardtransmission.com

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jimi G

First of all in order to be able to open up Tremec trannies, without voiding the warranty, you have to be an authorized repair center, which we at Standard Transmission are, and just about the only one in the nation.

I guess the lesson is that you should always buy from the manufacturer (builder) themselves if possible, or definitely find out in advance if they are an authorized ddealer.

[Snakebit]

Why did you have to pay $90 for a quality check on the trans??? If you are spending that kind of money on a trans and they told me you should have a quality check for $90 that would send up a big red flag! Tremac should be doing the quailty check before the trans leaves the factory.

Even on a rebuild, they don't ask you for $90 to do a quality check, hell they should be doing that when they are assembling the tranny, that's what you are paying for!!!

[Jimi G]

Tremec does do a quality check on there units, that is why if you were to open them up you would find a small amount of tranny fluid in them.jimig@standardtransmission.com

[flipper35]

On the Mopar boards Keisler does NOT have a good reputation. I had thought about one but after reading some of the fitment problems I stayed with my 833. In the Cobra with a 2.73 it isn't bad, but I am going to a 3:55. I drive the snot out of the car anbd the tranny has been the least of my worries, but the TKO II has similar gears (The synchro rings will interchange with the 833) but the TKO II gears are noticeably wider. Jimi G could give you more specifics on the 600.

[ByronRACE]

I keep a credit card with an east-coast bank for this very reason. If problems like this arise, they are quick to put the charges in dispute if you simply ask them to do so. I find that problem companies like this often change their minds about honoring warranty claims when the money is no longer in their bank account. I've had to do this twice in 15 years.

Whether you found 3rd at WOT in a safe environment (track) or unsafe environment (street), doesn't change the fact that the transmission didn't live up to its advertised torque rating. They should honor the claim and make things right. If they don't, and you paid by credit card, I'd advise you to consult the card company and see if the charges can be put in dispute on grounds of false advertising and failure to honor a warranty claim.

In the future, it would be advisable to never mention racing when performing warranty claims on automotive parts. I would have told them I was on my way to church if they asked.

[anonymouscobra]

..delete...

[KEISLERGENE]

Keisler Engineering has NEVER turned away a legitimate warranty claim, even when the transmission was outside the time limits of the warranty. Those here who know us and are not just here to dogpile us will vouch for that. This case is no exception.

In this particular case, the customer abused the transmission, sent us a false statement as to the use of the transmission when it failed, and changed his story when Tremec got involved. His story went from cruising at 55mph to power shifting into 3rd at the strip. Simply put, Mr. Detranova missed a shift and engaged the gear only halfway when he released the clutch, causing the gear teeth to fail.

As an authorized Tremec Warranty and Repair Center we have on-staff engineers and builders who are qualified to determine transmission use and failure. We also have at our disposal the vast knowledge of the Tremec tech team. Tremec and Keisler Engineers took a hard look at this failure and both determined that it was customer abuse that caused the failure.

This in no different than running your new crate engine to 12,000rpms and crying for coverage when it melts down.

This customer also joined every forum he could find simply to try to muscle us into fixing something he broke through abuse. We have over 4000 Tremec TKO transmissions in service, many in very high powered applications and most being stop light or drag strip raced. This is a testament to the strength of the TKO that has nothing to do with Keisler Engineering. Fess up Mr. Detranova, you broke it and now you want someone else to pay for your mistake.

Finally, it is posts like these that mislead and start firestorms under false pretenses that are ruining constructive discussion on the forums. In a political and consumer culture where folks have a great deal of difficulty taking responsibility for their own actions it would be great if we could keep the forums clean and dedicated to the discussion of the hobby we all love.

Keisler Engineering is proud to be the largest distributor of Tremec Transmissions and we will continue to serve the hobby to the best of our ability. Contact us directly if you want more facts about the transmission and our systems.

[dlang14]

I love how anonymouscobra and Keislergene have the same IP address......

That aside, I have no knowledge about this thread, and my TKO600 has been great for the first 3000 miles <knock on wood>. Good luck to all involved and here's to hoping an amicable solution can be found.


Daryl

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

As an authorized Tremec Warranty and Repair Center we have on-staff engineers and builders who are qualified to determine transmission use and failure. We also have at our disposal the vast knowledge of the Tremec tech team. Tremec and Keisler Engineers took a hard look at this failure and both determined that it was customer abuse that caused the failure.

Why would a company that stands behind their product and obviously values their customer base (why else would you have a friend/employee post from your computer/facility, then post yourself) spend 10X the man-hours and resources (You claim to have involved two teams of employees and done exhaustive analysis for this single transmission failure) to attempt to prove a customer is at fault than just simply repair/replace the transmission and build good will?

I'm in the automotive electronics business. Personally, when I get back a burned up pile of rubble and the customer tells me all he did was "plug it in", I replace the thing and ask him to be more careful next time. Yes, it costs me money (many hundreds of dollars, sometimes). Why do it? First, I don't honestly believe people buy things with the intention of destroying them. (They have a vested interest; R&Ring a trans in a Cobra is no fun...). Secondly, when I take care of the customer using the "customer is always right" policy, they are so happy they send me 10 friends. Thirdly, I don't believe I'm perfect. Perhaps the product was designed in such a way that it wasn't foolproof. Perhaps there's something more I could have done to prevent this failure. It COULD be a design problem; even if improbable.

Right or wrong, I believe you've already lost far more than you'll ever gain by denying this claim (whether valid or not). And, I don't care who's doing the analysis...there is no way to look at a pile of teeth and know EXACTLY what happened. I don't care how many piles of teeth and stripped gears you've looked at... you can't draw a conclusion with 100% confidence just because this pile looks similar to another pile. You can make an assumption based on how you choose to view the evidence...either for or against the customer. Ultimately, it comes down to your disposition.

[Greg Haile]

Keislergene

I'm glad you responded. People spend an enormous amount of money on these products and when we read that the company they delt with leaves other customers hanging (his side), you start to question your own judgment. There are two sides to every story and I'm glad to read yours. I don't think anybody expects Keisler to replace every product that breaks on the track, but what would it have cost to try to work at least something out with the guy. Ok so he broke a gear, what did Keisler do to try to rectify the situation other then tell him it was abuse and not covered?

My question is why do you charge to do a "quality check" that breaks Tremec's own warranty? and if not, why isn't Keisler recognized as a authorized Tremec repair shop? I just handed you guys a butt load of money and I want to have the confidence that Keisler is gonna be there if needed. Your floor.

Greg

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

Keislergene

I'm glad you responded. People spend an enormous amount of money on these products and when we read that the company they delt with leaves other customers hanging (his side), you start to question your own judgment. There are two sides to every story and I'm glad to read yours. I don't think anybody expects Keisler to replace every product that breaks on the track, but what would it have cost to try to work at least something out with the guy. Ok so he broke a gear, what did Keisler do to try to rectify the situation other then tell him it was abuse and not covered?

My question is why do you charge to do a "quality check" that breaks Tremec's own warranty? and if not, why isn't Keisler recognized as a authorized Tremec repair shop? I just handed you guys a butt load of money and I want to have the confidence that Keisler is gonna be there if needed. Your floor.

Greg

As we all know there are always two sides to every story. I have a signed letter from this guy stating " I was driving down the road and accelerating quickly" in his original post he told you he was at the track. His story changed. This guy missed a shift slammed it into third and sheered the gear.
He didn't tell you we offered him free labor and discounting on the parts to fix his trans. He wants to hold us hostage for his mistake. The post with the same ip address is from someone else working here who moniters the forums not myself.

[trularin]

As far as I know,

Not possible to have the same DNS and not be the same. The IP is in fact the same for both, you may not be the same person, but you both are from the same terminal.