Tko600 Warning!!!!

[Jimi G]

Tremec does do a quality check on there units, that is why if you were to open them up you would find a small amount of tranny fluid in them.jimig@standardtransmission.com

[flipper35]

On the Mopar boards Keisler does NOT have a good reputation. I had thought about one but after reading some of the fitment problems I stayed with my 833. In the Cobra with a 2.73 it isn't bad, but I am going to a 3:55. I drive the snot out of the car anbd the tranny has been the least of my worries, but the TKO II has similar gears (The synchro rings will interchange with the 833) but the TKO II gears are noticeably wider. Jimi G could give you more specifics on the 600.

[ByronRACE]

I keep a credit card with an east-coast bank for this very reason. If problems like this arise, they are quick to put the charges in dispute if you simply ask them to do so. I find that problem companies like this often change their minds about honoring warranty claims when the money is no longer in their bank account. I've had to do this twice in 15 years.

Whether you found 3rd at WOT in a safe environment (track) or unsafe environment (street), doesn't change the fact that the transmission didn't live up to its advertised torque rating. They should honor the claim and make things right. If they don't, and you paid by credit card, I'd advise you to consult the card company and see if the charges can be put in dispute on grounds of false advertising and failure to honor a warranty claim.

In the future, it would be advisable to never mention racing when performing warranty claims on automotive parts. I would have told them I was on my way to church if they asked.

[anonymouscobra]

..delete...

[KEISLERGENE]

Keisler Engineering has NEVER turned away a legitimate warranty claim, even when the transmission was outside the time limits of the warranty. Those here who know us and are not just here to dogpile us will vouch for that. This case is no exception.

In this particular case, the customer abused the transmission, sent us a false statement as to the use of the transmission when it failed, and changed his story when Tremec got involved. His story went from cruising at 55mph to power shifting into 3rd at the strip. Simply put, Mr. Detranova missed a shift and engaged the gear only halfway when he released the clutch, causing the gear teeth to fail.

As an authorized Tremec Warranty and Repair Center we have on-staff engineers and builders who are qualified to determine transmission use and failure. We also have at our disposal the vast knowledge of the Tremec tech team. Tremec and Keisler Engineers took a hard look at this failure and both determined that it was customer abuse that caused the failure.

This in no different than running your new crate engine to 12,000rpms and crying for coverage when it melts down.

This customer also joined every forum he could find simply to try to muscle us into fixing something he broke through abuse. We have over 4000 Tremec TKO transmissions in service, many in very high powered applications and most being stop light or drag strip raced. This is a testament to the strength of the TKO that has nothing to do with Keisler Engineering. Fess up Mr. Detranova, you broke it and now you want someone else to pay for your mistake.

Finally, it is posts like these that mislead and start firestorms under false pretenses that are ruining constructive discussion on the forums. In a political and consumer culture where folks have a great deal of difficulty taking responsibility for their own actions it would be great if we could keep the forums clean and dedicated to the discussion of the hobby we all love.

Keisler Engineering is proud to be the largest distributor of Tremec Transmissions and we will continue to serve the hobby to the best of our ability. Contact us directly if you want more facts about the transmission and our systems.

[dlang14]

I love how anonymouscobra and Keislergene have the same IP address......

That aside, I have no knowledge about this thread, and my TKO600 has been great for the first 3000 miles <knock on wood>. Good luck to all involved and here's to hoping an amicable solution can be found.


Daryl

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by dlang14

I love how anonymouscobra and Keislergene have the same IP address......

That aside, I have no knowledge about this thread, and my TKO600 has been great for the first 3000 miles <knock on wood>. Good luck to all involved and here's to hoping an amicable solution can be found.


Daryl

we are not one I the same I asure you

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

As an authorized Tremec Warranty and Repair Center we have on-staff engineers and builders who are qualified to determine transmission use and failure. We also have at our disposal the vast knowledge of the Tremec tech team. Tremec and Keisler Engineers took a hard look at this failure and both determined that it was customer abuse that caused the failure.

Why would a company that stands behind their product and obviously values their customer base (why else would you have a friend/employee post from your computer/facility, then post yourself) spend 10X the man-hours and resources (You claim to have involved two teams of employees and done exhaustive analysis for this single transmission failure) to attempt to prove a customer is at fault than just simply repair/replace the transmission and build good will?

I'm in the automotive electronics business. Personally, when I get back a burned up pile of rubble and the customer tells me all he did was "plug it in", I replace the thing and ask him to be more careful next time. Yes, it costs me money (many hundreds of dollars, sometimes). Why do it? First, I don't honestly believe people buy things with the intention of destroying them. (They have a vested interest; R&Ring a trans in a Cobra is no fun...). Secondly, when I take care of the customer using the "customer is always right" policy, they are so happy they send me 10 friends. Thirdly, I don't believe I'm perfect. Perhaps the product was designed in such a way that it wasn't foolproof. Perhaps there's something more I could have done to prevent this failure. It COULD be a design problem; even if improbable.

Right or wrong, I believe you've already lost far more than you'll ever gain by denying this claim (whether valid or not). And, I don't care who's doing the analysis...there is no way to look at a pile of teeth and know EXACTLY what happened. I don't care how many piles of teeth and stripped gears you've looked at... you can't draw a conclusion with 100% confidence just because this pile looks similar to another pile. You can make an assumption based on how you choose to view the evidence...either for or against the customer. Ultimately, it comes down to your disposition.

[Greg Haile]

Keislergene

I'm glad you responded. People spend an enormous amount of money on these products and when we read that the company they delt with leaves other customers hanging (his side), you start to question your own judgment. There are two sides to every story and I'm glad to read yours. I don't think anybody expects Keisler to replace every product that breaks on the track, but what would it have cost to try to work at least something out with the guy. Ok so he broke a gear, what did Keisler do to try to rectify the situation other then tell him it was abuse and not covered?

My question is why do you charge to do a "quality check" that breaks Tremec's own warranty? and if not, why isn't Keisler recognized as a authorized Tremec repair shop? I just handed you guys a butt load of money and I want to have the confidence that Keisler is gonna be there if needed. Your floor.

Greg

[trularin]

As far as I know,

Not possible to have the same DNS and not be the same. The IP is in fact the same for both, you may not be the same person, but you both are from the same terminal.

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by trularin

As far as I know,

Not possible to have the same DNS and not be the same.

Agreed; at least the same facility. Those 2 posts from the same IP came from the same subscriber line. If not the same PC, at least the same facility.

[Excaliber]

I have a couple of people that log onto this computer and use it. While THEY have the same IP as me, they are not ME. Simple...

[ByronRACE]

Anonymous Cobra's Post got Deleted. Here it is for anyone missing it:

anonymouscobra said:

Very good thread but I am not sure where to start my response. First off lets go with your initial complaint over a company not standing behind a warranty. I use a kiesler 5 speed in my car and love it with no issues at all. I have also raced this vehicle time and time again and no isssues. Now on warranty Keisler stands behind their warranty and that is 6months on a kit purchase. Think about it though if you are a company you dont warranty racing if you did you would be iggnorant. No one in the industry says take my stuff to the track if you break it from misuse driver error or abuse i will replace it no because that doesnt exist. Tremec has a 90 day warranty and that is it I had put one in my 99 gt and had an issue outside of that but hell I read the warranty so I knew that I was out of pocket. Look at it this way if you buy a race motor they dont warranty that motor if you over rev the damn thing on the track or misuse it. My guess is being the size that Keisler is they would have had a tremec rep look at this transmission to see the damage.

Now did you miss shift or not get all the way into the gate. ??????????????? no one knows because most men wouldnt stand up to admit they may have misshifted or wasnt all the way into the gear and released the clutch. Now as for racing this trans, there are thousands and thousands that are racing these with no issues so..... Sounds to me like its something you did on your behalf. Good luck with this and I feel for you.

Standardtransmission I was wondering isnt Keisler the biggest distributor in the world for Tremec. I did want to clear on ething up my buddy bought a trans direct from tremec and then had a leak on it. Tremec told him to send it to Keisler to get the work done that they were a factory warranty shop. Sent it there trans came back perfect.

Greg wish you the best of luck but I would consider what your looking at. You are trying to fight something thats clearly stated by both companies on this one. Second you have to prove that it was a materials issue and not driver error. Please post let us know what happens.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

Keislergene

I'm glad you responded. People spend an enormous amount of money on these products and when we read that the company they delt with leaves other customers hanging (his side), you start to question your own judgment. There are two sides to every story and I'm glad to read yours. I don't think anybody expects Keisler to replace every product that breaks on the track, but what would it have cost to try to work at least something out with the guy. Ok so he broke a gear, what did Keisler do to try to rectify the situation other then tell him it was abuse and not covered?

My question is why do you charge to do a "quality check" that breaks Tremec's own warranty? and if not, why isn't Keisler recognized as a authorized Tremec repair shop? I just handed you guys a butt load of money and I want to have the confidence that Keisler is gonna be there if needed. Your floor.

Greg

As we all know there are always two sides to every story. I have a signed letter from this guy stating " I was driving down the road and accelerating quickly" in his original post he told you he was at the track. His story changed. This guy missed a shift slammed it into third and sheered the gear.
He didn't tell you we offered him free labor and discounting on the parts to fix his trans. He wants to hold us hostage for his mistake. The post with the same ip address is from someone else working here who moniters the forums not myself.

[Excaliber]

...and another well meaning employee bites the dust.

Man I've been there, sticking up for the boss, using my own experience, somehow crossing the line in the delicate world of being politically correct and just trying to do the right thing.

Don't be to hard on him Keislergene. We recently saw another example of this with an employee\friend of the author of "Cobra Ferrari Wars", well intentioned but wound up sticking his foot in his mouth, turned out OK when the smoke cleared. Stuff happens.

[ByronRACE]

I agree, there are two sides to the story.

But, anonymouscobras post does provide key insight (from within the facility) into the assumptions the company has made and where they believe the burden of proof lies in a situation like this.

I find this disturbing. Apparently, the company expects the CUSTOMER to prove the product wasn't misused. Otherwise, they assume it was and don't honor a claim?

That sounds like a great way to not have to honor any claims at all, doesn't it? It's always possible to misuse a manual transmission, and always IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE it wasn't misused. Very convenient.

And lastly, there are companies that have unconditional lifetime warranties on transmissions. For example, Performance Automatic. I have a client that has blown up his C4 a half dozen times over the years in a twin turbo small block drag car (wheels-up, transbrake stuff)...and each time he just ships it off and they fix it free of charge, no questions asked, no drama, no burden of proof issues...just great customer service.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

JEEEEZZ - I just installed the exact same setup from Keisler and I'll be pushing 550HP. They charged me 90 bucks to do what they call a "quality check" prior to shipping. I was told they will not stand behind the tranny without it, and now they're brushing you off??? Its also unbelievable that Tremec will not stand behind their dealer. I never would have used them if I would have read your story first. I would like to believe we have strength in numbers and can have an impact. I'll go somewhere else from now on.

Greg

One of biggest benifits to our quality check is the presurre decay leaktest machine we use. We do this to all the trannys wether they are just a bare unit or a modified unit before thay leave here. We also no longer charge for this.

You guys still aren't getting the fact that this guy tried to decieve us at first,
because he knew he screwed up. We bend over backwards for all customers and offered him a deal as well. All you guys seem to believe is what he said.

[John McMahon]

I like the thinking that "just because you drive it on the track, you're abusing it". Not true.

I drove two different Mustangs using a Tremec 3550 for years, driving them hard without a single problem.

I know morons who drive on the street that should not be allowed to drive anything but a 2 speed PowerGlide. The issue is the driver, not the venue.

I still don't understand why they had to charge you $90 to inspect the box when you were already paying twice the price. For that price, you could have bought a bullet proof Richmond Gear.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

I agree, there are two sides to the story.

But, anonymouscobras post does provide key insight (from within the facility) into the assumptions the company has made and where they believe the burden of proof lies in a situation like this.

I find this disturbing. Apparently, the company expects the CUSTOMER to prove the product wasn't misused. Otherwise, they assume it was and don't honor a claim?

That sounds like a great way to not have to honor any claims at all, doesn't it? It's always possible to misuse a manual transmission, and always IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE it wasn't misused. Very convenient.

And lastly, there are companies that have unconditional lifetime warranties on transmissions. For example, Performance Automatic. I have a client that has blown up his C4 a half dozen times over the years in a twin turbo small block drag car (wheels-up, transbrake stuff)...and each time he just ships it off and they fix it free of charge, no questions asked, no drama, no burden of proof issues...just great customer service.

That company is one of the few. What about the deceptive customer who we offered a cheap solution to fix his trans?

This basically boils down to he missed a shift and screwed the trans up. We offered to fix it at low cost. Tremec denied the warranty claim. We did the best we could and it wasn't good enough. Despite what all of you are thinking how many of you know someone or have a TKO in your car and it's fine.I have guys who race these transmissions on the track without fail it was his mistake. He screwed up take ownership. I wish all of the thousands of Tremec customers went to bat for us like you guys will defend this guy.I know for a fact that customer service is a rare thing these days we all experiance it every where we go.We were going to eat the labor and offered him discounted parts to fix his trans, he refused he wanted more for his mistake. We send out warranty papers they have statments of limitation. He went beyond that period.

I dont mean to ran't but we have all been where this guy is, all of us. We have to suck it up and take it like a man.

I am done Gene

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

You guys still aren't getting the fact that this guy tried to decieve us at first,
because he knew he screwed up. We bend over backwards for all customers and offered him a deal as well. All you guys seem to believe is what he said.

I get it. You think he broke the transmission by not using it correctly. You think he told you he was accelerating down the road, then later said he had the car at a track, and this makes your case that it was misused...because it was at a track. Well hell, I'd leave that part out in my story too. Why? Because you'd jump to conclusions.

I get it. He raced it. It broke. Maybe he broke it. I just don't agree that this makes any difference from a customer service perspective. Bottom line is you have an extremely unhappy customer and are in a position where you could solve the problem at a minimal cost and inconvenience to both of you. Instead, you've spent considerable time and resources pointing the finger in order to not warranty the product. He has to R&R the thing and presumably pay half of the shipping at a minimum...nobody does that for fun; I just don't see the motive or what he has to gain here. Your cost on the parts and labor is far less than what you've lost already by creating an unhappy customer. I'd just fix it and be done with it; or get all your stuff back and show him the door. If for no other reason than to stop my company name from being displayed in questionable light.