331 cam

[blykins]

The extra lift is desired, but a 20 deg duration difference is huge. You also don't want a huge duration split because it increases overlap.

It would be best to contact an engine builder for the cam. Ive never had much faith in tech guys.

I can have Comp Cams custom grind any cam for me, with me picking the lobes. A solid roller with similar performance characteristics can be made, with adjustments for lash. Of course a solid roller would have the potential for more aggressive lobes and possibly more power.

[ERA2076]

Have not talked to the builder yet - gathering info so I can intelligently talk to him. Appreciate the input.

chr

[blykins]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

Have not talked to the builder yet - gathering info so I can intelligently talk to him. Appreciate the input.

chr

Yep, that's the best approach.

You're going to want a mix of the two cams that you listed. The 222/224 cam won't get you to 7000, but I would consider it more correct on the duration split. The 242/248 cam has a bit more duration than you need, and I think it would have too much overlap for the Webers. The LSA is correct for both cams, 112-114 is usually the sweet spot.

Lift should match the capability of the cylinder heads.

Comp has a myriad of solid roller or solid flat tappet lobes to get you anywhere you want to be.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by blykins

The extra lift is desired, but a 20 deg duration difference is huge. You also don't want a huge duration split because it increases overlap.

Can you share some numbers -

What is the maximum duration you would run with 48's?

What do you consider as the maximum separation (split) for duration?

x-chr

[zimmy]

Call Jim Inglese. He is the best one to advise you. Ask and then follow his advice! He is truly the master. I speak from experience. You can find him here:

Home

[ERA2076]

I already purchased the 48's. I did not purchase from Jim. I am not comfortable asking him for tech since I did not purchase from him. I have read all he has on his site.

I'm interested in guy's that have built and run them (SB with 48). I have searched for the original 289 specs out of interest, but have not been able to find them.

chr

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

I already purchased the 48's. I did not purchase from Jim. I am not comfortable asking him for tech since I did not purchase from him. I have read all he has on his site.

I'm interested in guy's that have built and run them (SB with 48). I have searched for the original 289 specs out of interest, but have not been able to find them.

chr

This sounds like it will be a great engine.
Some will smile when I ask this question ....what final drive gearing are you going to use?
Cheers,
Glen

[blykins]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

Can you share some numbers -

What is the maximum duration you would run with 48's?

What do you consider as the maximum separation (split) for duration?

x-chr

Sorry, just saw this...

If you want to make peak power at 7000, it's a little different than being able to pull to 7000. What are your exact goals?

For a split, I would consider 2-4 degrees optimal.

[ERA2076]

7000 is a marker for strength, but I would like to be able to safely pull perhaps 6300 (6400 would be very happy). I looked at mean piston speed data and I was around 3500 at 6400 where 4000 was the max for a performance engine (not race). I want to build something strong - it is rather expensive for me, so it needs to last some. 7000 is a valve train goal. We will limit it once we see the dyno.

Here is some data on the 289. 301 @ 5900

Hi-Po 289 Shelby 289 Gains
RPM HP TQ HP TQ HP TQ
2600 121 245 132 266 11 21
2900 136 246 147 267 9 21
3200 159 261 174 285 15 24
3500 185 277 198 297 13 20
3800 207 286 221 306 14 20
4100 224 287 240 307 16 20
4400 240 286 259 309 19 23
4700 253 283 277 309 24 26
5000 262 275 287 301 25 26
5300 269 267 296 293 27 26
5600 272 255 300 281 28 26
5900 273 243 301 268 28 25


My understanding is Shelby Factory cars made as high as 380 hp. How high were they turning those? I assume they were using most of it. We know they were were capable of 150.

My car is running 3.54 JAG. I am concerned with the 3550 strength, but I'll fix it when I get there.

100 @ 4500

133.6 mph @ 6000
135.9 mph @ 6100
138.1 mph @ 6200
140.3 mph @ 6300
142.5 mph @ 6400
144.8 mph @ 6500

4th - plenty for me - Can only imagine what it is going to feel like. I plan to use aluminum fly wheel. I want it to rev quickly, throttle match easily, and feel very connected to the steering and suspension. I have not run the lower gearbox ratios.

It occurs to me Shelby had to engineer around the Webers and Cam?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

The 5.0 Mustang drag race guys have been spinning their engines to 7000 rpms for years using the stock factory hydraulic roller lifters from Ford with little to no problems.....
You can get 6500 rpms out of a hydraulic roller set-up easily....You will not be staying at 7000 rpms very long, most likely once you hit that number, you'll be shifting...
I wouldn't hesitate to go with a hydraulic roller set-up instead of a solid cam set-up for your intended use....
Little to no maintence and easier on parts, also larger selections of cams to pick from.......

Just my 2 cents on the subject.....

David

[iismet]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

The 5.0 Mustang drag race guys have been spinning their engines to 7000 rpms for years using the stock factory hydraulic roller lifters from Ford with little to no problems.....
You can get 6500 rpms out of a hydraulic roller set-up easily....You will not be staying at 7000 rpms very long, most likely once you hit that number, you'll be shifting...
I wouldn't hesitate to go with a hydraulic roller set-up instead of a solid cam set-up for your intended use....
Little to no maintence and easier on parts, also larger selections of cams to pick from.......

Just my 2 cents on the subject.....

David

I hear you loud and clear - I am committed to solid.

x-chr

[blykins]

For a 6500 peak on a solid roller for your application, I would use the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy lobes. They are aggressive enough for power, but not aggressive enough to cause valvetrain issues.

How efficient the cam is depends on how well the heads flow, so with a decent head, I would go with something like a 230/234 @ .050", 112 LSA, .561/.561" with a 1.7 RR.

Those lobes work really well but aren't spring eaters or valvetrain breakers.

I would personally rethink the Eagle bottom end and use the Scat crank and rods. Mahle makes a really light piston for this application that's already coated and has a thinner ring pack. Good stuff.

An aluminum flywheel works well with the road race applications, but keep in mind that an aluminum flywheel will make a high strung engine a little harder to drive on the street, and the result is having to slip the clutch more to get the car going.

[iismet]

Originally Posted by blykins

For a 6500 peak on a solid roller for your application, I would use the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy lobes. They are aggressive enough for power, but not aggressive enough to cause valvetrain issues.

How efficient the cam is depends on how well the heads flow, so with a decent head, I would go with something like a 230/234 @ .050", 112 LSA, .561/.561" with a 1.7 RR.

Those lobes work really well but aren't spring eaters or valvetrain breakers.

Thank You -

Originally Posted by blykins

I would personally rethink the Eagle bottom end and use the Scat crank and rods. Mahle makes a really light piston for this application that's already coated and has a thinner ring pack. Good stuff.

Can you expand on this- why do you prefer one over the other? I was going to purchase a forged kit. They both make one - Eagle supplies Mahle Pistons but they are probably not the ones you specify. You are right on the money - a lite assembly. I'll need to study this further.

Originally Posted by blykins

An aluminum flywheel works well with the road race applications, but keep in mind that an aluminum flywheel will make a high strung engine a little harder to drive on the street, and the result is having to slip the clutch more to get the car going.

My car is an ERA. ERA runs a heavier frame. I thought I would try to get the thing as lite as I could. It weighed 2440 with the 351. I store the car in the country and that is where it is mostly driven. I've never been a stop light racer - the car is iconic - when stopped at a light that is good enough for me - back roads are a different matter.

It's like the solid vs hydraulic for me - I'm committed. If there is not enough inertia I will swap it out.

Hugely appreciate your input.