Found out what "Lifting" means, the hard way at Blackhawk Farms Raceway

[tin-man]

Is lifting just a Cobra phenomenon or is applicable to any lightweight car. reason I ask is I never experienced such while driving a Lotus Elise in Malaysia around the Sepang Speedway and that car was light, 1500KG. Granted it only had 172hp but was turbo charged and went like a bat out of hell. It did have a rear engine tho'. tin-man

[Tommy]

I think bobcowan got it right. But, closing the throttle on a large, high compression engine in a car where the rear wheels are near the limits of traction can cause the rear tires to skid and slow to a much lower speed than the car. It feels like the tires are stopped completely, but until the driver steps on the brakes, they are not "locked", but turning slowly. Regardless, any time the tires are rolling at a different speed than the car is moving, the car will skid.

[John McMahon]

you should not be lifting in any turn on any track in any vehicle....

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

you should not be lifting in any turn on any track in any vehicle....

+1

You need to stop doing that before even worse things happen.

It's called Trailing Throttle Oversteer.

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

+1

You need to stop doing that before even worse things happen......."

exactly. besides, it's a very rewarding exercise in will power to keep your foot planted firmly down at EXACTLY the right pressure. And you get a great feeling of satisfaction when the turn is behind you.


Z.

[Jimbocobra]

You need to stop doing that before even worse things happen.

Yep. But the hard part is trusting the grip as you get close to the edge, Or better yet, slow down into the turn more and accelerate through. Nothing good can come from lifting.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

you should not be lifting in any turn on any track in any vehicle....

+100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should complete all your downshifting and braking when approaching any turn in a straight line just before actually turning the steering wheel, once you begin turning in, you should have your foot off the brake pedal and on the gas pedal, if not accelerating, then maintaining your speed thru the turn untill you can accelerate out of the turn..........Slow in= fast out and a faster lap.......
practise/practise and more practise will get you there and you'll be quicker and safer and have a ton more fun......
Been there,done that, have done my share of mowing the runoff area........

[QUOTE As I'm sure you're aware, street and freeway 'skills' don't translate to the track, not one damn bit.
][/quote]
But skills learned on the track will save your A$$ on the street, been there, done that also, saved me from a head on collision with a 1 ton flatbed truck a few years ago which I doubt I would have survived as I was driving a Toyota Corolla, quick thinking and standing on the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal that day saved my life..........

David

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by tin-man

Is lifting just a Cobra phenomenon or is applicable to any lightweight car. reason I ask is I never experienced such while driving a Lotus Elise in Malaysia around the Sepang Speedway and that car was light, 1500KG. Granted it only had 172hp but was turbo charged and went like a bat out of hell. It did have a rear engine tho'. tin-man

Trailing throttle oversteer can happen in any powered, wheel driven vehicle that sends power (or even the majority of power) through the rear wheels. Depending on the vehicle and a myriad of other factors from weight to balance to suspension tuning, gearing, drivetrain configuration and tire selection, it will take more or less to provoke a tail-out orientation; but push the limits of your particular combination and it will happen.

The net effect is similar to pulling up your hand brake at speed while turning, or grabbing the rear brakes on your bicycle while your handlebar is turned.

The phenomenon is not necessarily your enemy if you master your car's dynamics and use it deliberately and judiciously.

Edit - re the Lotus: 1500KG is way heavier than most Cobras - surely it was lighter than that?

Also, rear or rear/mid engined cars generally tend to have more weight aft of the centerline and they will really swing their tails out when the rear tires lose grip in a corner. Some are better balanced than others, but cars like the old Porsche 930 Turbos were extreme in that regard and they will swing their arse end around like a pendulum.

[tin-man]

[quote=Buzz;1146001]
Edit - re the Lotus: 1500KG is way heavier than most Cobras - surely it was lighter than that?

Buzz, yep you are right, I mispoke, the Lotus was mid engine and turbo charged, behind the driver anyway, thus my "rear engine" comment and had a curb weight of 1,800 Pounds (818 Kilograms) I guess I was thinking of pounds but wrote kg. mea culpa. tin-man