Roll Bars

chipperb · #1 (**permalink**) 06-01-2005, 04:44 PM

Contact Chuck Keene at 678-227-2857 cell, Does work for Superformance. cb

HSSS427 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-01-2005, 06:20 PM

was this in reply to my comment or post about a removable roll bar to get me into the NASA HPDE course? Does this guy custom make roll bars? Seems that's what I'm going to need.
Thanks!
Scott

chipperb · #3 (**permalink**) 06-01-2005, 06:40 PM

YES! Just talked to him about a custom bar for my Cobra Daytona replica. NASA (as others) may require a full roll bar vs the standard Cobra "hoop". You may want to contact NASA SE in Charlotte first to see what they require0maybe you can get away with your standard hoop. cb

HSSS427 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-01-2005, 08:07 PM

The guy, David Smith, is one of the technical guys and we swapped a couple of emails and he said I absolutely would be required to have roll bar protection for the passenger side so an instructor could ride along. I also sense from reading a bunch of threads that if I'm going to put this beast on the track, I should be thinking about as much practical protection as I can get.

The main thing is I don't want it to be permanent so I can take it out and retain the classic look of the car. As such, I'm hoping I can get something made that can be bolted to the floor where I can just take out the carpet, bolt it down, and then remove when I'm done. Maybe a tri-pod type set up. Chuck's name sounds familiar for some reason. Where is he located and is this his main business?
Thanks!

autoxmike · #5 (**permalink**) 06-01-2005, 10:30 PM

I am in a similar situation. I plan to autocross my Cobra a lot plus maybe some track events. For SCCA I think the roll strucure must be 2" higher than the top of the helmet. I have the classic roll bar behind the driver, but I think it is to short. So, I plan to have someone make (or buy) a similar roll hoop for the passenger side, htne make it so I can mount a higher bar that connectes on teh passenger and driver hoops. Then I can put the "extended" roll bar on when doing track and AX stuff, and have 2 shorter roll hoops during normal driving.

Would this Chuck Keene be a guy that can fabricate this for me? Any other ideas?

HSSS427 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 08:52 AM

Seems there are full size - both passengers coverd - roll bars that you can buy and install, but of course this means taking out the old one and mofifying the car body. They certainly provide more protection than the original style, but basically you're moving toward having a race car vs an original looking cobra SC. I've seen some posts here where others have said they've had removable roll bars created, but most of the threads are from 2-3 years ago and from places other than Atlanta.

I just left a voice mail for Chuck so will see what he says and post here.

BTW Mike - -after your trip I figured you'd be looking at a hard top to keep all the rain out

grumpy · #7 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 09:04 AM

HSSS427,
I think you are in for more than you bargined, You need to get your NASA driving permit completed in a "qualified car" with instructor, and then graduate to your COBRA for the Vintage Open Road type events without him.
If you are going to seriously compete in NASA events, then start from scratch and do not cut up that beautiful ERA.
Rememeber it's very tough to have a competitive racing vehicle that you can drive on the street, and there's really no such thing, it will wind up one or the other. Even AutoX type events are heading that way, these fellows and gals at play are getting serious about it!
grumpy

autoxmike · #8 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HSSS427

Seems there are full size - both passengers coverd - roll bars that you can buy and install, but of course this means taking out the old one and mofifying the car body.

I already have the drivers side hoop. So I plan to leave that in place, have a duplicate made for the passenger side. These would stay in all the time. Then have mounts on these hoops that I can bolt a higher bar to these that goes between them. Then I get better rollover protection that meets the SCCA requirements, and I can take the ugly thing off and go back to 2 lower hoops when not on the track.....

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BTW Mike - -after your trip I figured you'd be looking at a hard top to keep all the rain out

Actually, I have thought about it, but am leaning towards a soft top. I do plan to drive mine a lot so would like to have some rain protection.....

chipperb · #9 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 12:17 PM

Chuck has a 6000sq ft shop with bending (mandrel) equipment etc. He hangs out at the Superformance dealer across from road Atlanta a lot (lunch!). He can handle the job!

You can do High Speed Drivers Ed (HSDE?) with NASA if you do not want to get a license. They will start out with lead/follow. There is a difference between HSDE and their competition events. Decide which you want to do. I'll be glad to help-done a lot of events. Be sure to get a good helmet and a 6 pt harness!

HSSS427 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 03:36 PM

Mine's a 4 point harness. Is a 5 or 6 required?

Talked to Chuck today and am going to drive up to have him take a look next weekend. We're going to meet at McMichael. He said he'll take some electrical conduit and mock up the roll-bar and then build it based on that shape.

Hope this won't be too painful.....
Thanks!
Scott

chuckbrandt · #11 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 03:56 PM

Similar to your plan, I had ERA add an extra roll bar for the instructor. I assume I'll be in good shape.

Chuck

chipperb · #12 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 04:14 PM

Harnesses: the "submarine" belts of a 5pt/6pt keeps the lap/shoulder harness in position and keeps the driver from "submarining" (sp?) under the belt system. 6pt spreads the "load" over two areas rather than one, and protects the "family jewels" in the process. I see 4pts often used in a 5/6 pt system. There is no protection on these cars: no colapsing steering column and no "padding" on the dash. Also the shoulder portion should be no more than a bit above or below the shoulders: too low will com press the spine in an accident. And finally, belts need to be replaced regualrly due to UV light deteriation, and they strtch in an accident, dissipat

chipperb · #13 (**permalink**) 06-02-2005, 04:21 PM

dissipating the energy but heating the belts in the process. You do not want a long run of the shoulder portion because this streetching may allow you to hit the wheel/dash etc. And make sure that the belts are well anchored.

Much of this is based on an article by a physician/racer who did a post wreck study odf a friends accident in which the friewnd was almost completely "stuffed" up under the dash because he had no 5/6 points to hold him in place. Article avaiable upon request emailed from my old "webtv" email

Sorry about the lecture, but I feel strongly about the proper use of belts/harnesses in these cars. Also excuse me for my spelling-wife was out of the room. Just opinions.

HSSS427 · #14 (**permalink**) 06-04-2005, 08:39 PM

So how do you test a belt for deterioration? Cars been kept in-doors, but it is 10 years old.

Also, have you seen anything that lets you add a 5th and 6th belt to the usual 4 point rig? I assume you have to get a whole new buckle set-up to go to 5 or 6 point, and at that point it's probably best to just get a whole new rig?

As for Grumpy's message - I sense that somewhere along the path, it forks and you have to choose one or the other as you say - race, or street. At this point I'm just trying to get on the path and get a look down each fork to see where I want to go. Right now, I'm just looking for a chance to get my car someplace where I can really wring it out and see what it will do, while learning how to drive the beast in a "safe" environment with help from experienced and qualified instructors. I guess that's why I'm looking for the temporary solution for now. If the race bug bites hard, then I'll have to re-consider my options. If it doesn't, or life doesn't allow the time to do regular racing, then I'll just want to be able to get out for some Solo events, and lap days. So, I'm just trying to get to step 1 - the HPDE 1 course at Road Atlanta in August!

That said, what's involved in getting to use someone elses purpose built car for the HPDE type courses? If I can't get mine set-up, then I'd still like to take the course.
Thanks!
Scott

Three Peaks · #15 (**permalink**) 06-04-2005, 11:33 PM

SFI rated belts have a date marking on them when they are manufactured. I believe they are accepted for 5 years from manufacturing date. After that, they aren't allowed for racing and would need to be replaced to participate in a sanctioned event.

chipperb · #16 (**permalink**) 06-05-2005, 07:18 AM

NHRA will only allow 2 years I am told by an NHRA inspector/engineer friend of mine. Not sure if it is all classes.

Scott: Use your own car: Cobras handle much dfferently than most other cars (short wheelbase, etc). I have seveal cars that are both track and street legal. Panoz cars may be similar: Ford V8, front engine, light weight, etc. But it is best to get used to yuour own car in contolled conditions.

I hear that Cobra rep.'s and their drivers have a 50% accident rate in the first year of ownership-that is why insurance is difficult to come by. And most of the reps. have as much or more power than the originals.

chuckbrandt · #17 (**permalink**) 06-05-2005, 07:48 AM

Since most people (I think) take a couple of years to build their car (I did) the belts that came with their kit are new but obsolete (mine are)!

Chuck

chipperb · #18 (**permalink**) 06-05-2005, 08:17 AM

Scott-contact "Chill". He just sold his Cobra for a new Lotus Elise. But he had taken NASA's HSDE with it, and I believe he had a single loop roll bar an his Unique FIA car. As I mentioned, I ran a Panoz HSDE with my Daytona, and they did not require a roll bar. I will add one at some time because other groups are now requiring them.

The big enemy of seat belts us UV rays. If belts have been packed away during the build, should be no problem. And our cars are garaged. NHRA is covering their a$$ with their regs.

HSSS427 · #19 (**permalink**) 06-05-2005, 03:54 PM

Well, dropped the car off with Jeff up at Startingline so he can fix the cracked housing around the oil cooler. As such, I'm going to try and get Chuck Keene to go by there and see if he can figure out the roll bar thing. Bob and I looked at it and felt if I put both driver and passenger seats on adjustable sliders, then I could move then both forward a few inches and bolt something in to the floor behind the seats.

Will check the price on new seat belts and see what that runs.
Thanks!
Scott