AC Continuation or Kirkham

[london]

Originally Posted by KevinW

I reckon I can make better footboxes than that.

Kevin, I'll leave you to tell Gus!

Whats'aCobra - an additional Kirkham or one to replace CSX 3058?

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by london

Kevin, I'll leave you to tell Gus!

Whats'aCobra - an additional Kirkham or one to replace CSX 3058?

i'll post some pics when ive more time.

[london]

Originally Posted by KevinW

i'll post some pics when ive more time.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Crendon.

In the meantime, here's a link to one of AC Heritage's latest 427s, COB 5014:

Galleries

[What'saCobra?]

Nice copy job, partner. Thanks for that.

Now, your mission should you decide to accept it: publish which of these cars was completed by which of the several corporations and when. (Hint: nearly all of the cars' serial numbers have meaning, when fabricated/shipped by AC under Angliss. Further post-continuation production cars feom successor "AC" companies may have less reliable number meaning, depending on which of the several AC follow-on companies completed/registered/serialized the cars.)

Even those produced by AC Cars Ltd. (GB) changed numbers post shipment based on various political and technical (read: tax) needs. For instance, COB 6133 (and others) left the factory Registered as CSX 4003. Apparently, at some point after the cars became known to Shelby. At his insistence the serial numbers were revised out of Shelby's intended band of HIS "continuations" (CSX 4000 series, which DID happen at SA). i suppose it was deemed more wise to avoid litigation with Shel, who may have had FORD's tacit support on this issue. Certainly, the COX designation is correct to AC history, though not usually intended for US consumption, rather Europe. Likely, Shel' argued (conveniently, at that moment) that the S in CSX stood for Shelby.

Further, the (dark blue) 289 MKII was not shipped to Finland. Rather, it has remained in GB, quietly residing in a professional collection as the very last of its type before the Lubinsky massacre. It was finished as a RHD, converted to LHD upon my request, then reverse converted back to RHD at the instructions of its (i believe still) current English owner. When first completed in 1995, it had an original 289 from an original car, shipped upon purchase from Michigan in the US. The Registry indicates that the chassis had been used as a body jig by AC in Thames Ditton for some time. Brian confirmed that at the time.

Even further, some chassis' have been swapped in the past to better reflect owner intent or transient/temporary tax issues. (For instance, i know the specific details ((translation: paperwork and data plate) of an original McLaren M8F whose serial numbers changed for each trip from Switzerland to other EU races and the British factory during the original Can-Am series. The factory participated in this convenience to assist their customer with oddball laws and International documentation requirements.) So a careful and knowledgeable inspection of an actual chassis is necessary to learn better the real/original/current chassis status. If we're going to pay current numbers for these special and valuable chassis/cars, we need help to ensure our anticipated values. The Shelby scam with false "left-over chassis laid down in the day and forgotten" ought to remain the high-watermark warning to potential buyers/investors.

[london]

Originally Posted by What'saCobra?

Nice copy job, partner. Thanks for that.

Now, your mission should you decide to accept it: publish which of these cars was completed by which of the several corporations and when. (Hint: nearly all of the cars' serial numbers have meaning, when fabricated/shipped by AC under Angliss. Further post-continuation production cars feom successor "AC" companies may have less reliable number meaning, depending on which of the several AC follow-on companies completed/registered/serialized the cars.)

Even those produced by AC Cars Ltd. (GB) changed numbers post shipment based on various political and technical (read: tax) needs. For instance, COB 6133 (and others) left the factory Registered as CSX 4003. Apparently, at some point after the cars became known to Shelby, at his insistence the serial numbers were revised out of Shelby's intended band of HIS "continuations" (CSX 4000 series, which DID happen at SA). i suppose it was deemed more wise to avoid litigation with Shel, who may have had FORD's tacit support on this issue. Certainly, the COX designation is correct to AC history, though not usually intended for US consumption, rather Europe. Likely, Shel' argued (conveniently, at that moment) that the S in CSX stood for Shelby.

Further, the (dark blue) 289 MKII was not shipped to Finland. Rather, it has remained in GB, quietly residing in a professional collection as the very last of its type before the Lubinsky massacre. It was finished as a RHD, converted to LHD upon my request, then reverse converted back to RHD at the instructions of its (i believe still) current English owner. When first completed in 1995, it had an original 289 from an original car, shipped upon purchase from Michigan in the US. The Registry indicates that the chassis had been used as a body jig by AC in Thames Ditton for some time. Brian confirmed that at the time.

Even further, some chassis' have been swapped in the past to better reflect owner intent or transient/temporary tax issues. (For instance, i know the specific details ((translation: paperwork and data plate) of an original McLaren M8F whose serial numbers changed for each trip from Switzerland to other EU races and the British factory during the original Can-Am series. The factory participated in this convenience to assist their customer with oddball laws and International documentation requirements.) So a careful and knowledgeable inspection of an actual chassis is necessary to learn better the real/original/current chassis status. If we're going to pay current numbers for these special and valuable chassis/cars, we need help to ensure our anticipated values. The Shelby scam with false "left-over chassis laid down in the day and forgotten" ought to remain the high-watermark warning to potential buyers/investors.

This is very interesting and highlights how difficult it will be for anyone wishing to document an accurate record of the AC Continuation cars. If only I could get hold of COB 4004 - a beautiful car!

[Flygirl]

This is why I'm setting my sights in a different direction and going with a new ERA. It's a driveable, lower-stress, accurate looking car with little pretense of originality. If it gets a stone chip or shows wear, no big deal; it won't be a garage queen.

Also, I can't afford something with a dollar sign and six figures to the left of the decimal point.
:-)

[computerworks]

...this is the AC MK IV forum....for discussion about AC Cars.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by computerworks

...this is the AC MK IV forum....for discussion about AC Cars.

I know. I have yet to figure out why Wally thinks something he asks about is related to the thread he posts the question in.

[Trevor Legate]

Welcome to the twilight zone....or maybe it's the absinthe I drank during my walk across France....

And re-reading the above - anyone know where COB4004 is now - or is it still 4004??? I think we should be told

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Welcome to the twilight zone....or maybe it's the absinthe I drank during my walk across France....

Trevor,

That explains you, but what about Wally? And where is the Beaver?

Although "Dear Chairman" has been quiet for some time, perhaps there is a new factory in the works? Or the newest AC MK XII?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Trevor,

That explains you, but what about Wally? And where is the Beaver?

Although "Dear Chairman" has been quiet for some time, perhaps there is a new factory in the works? Or the newest AC MK XII?

Well, it seems that Wally has stopped paying attention to this thread, so it is perhaps safe to discuss the situation.

My sources (let's just call them "The Dumb Bunnies", which should not be confused with "da bunnies" (TM)"), tell me that Alan Lubinsky was apparently in North Korea selling the "eternal leader" on the idea of a new AC Factory, which could bring wealth and prestige to the North, much like Hyundia/Kia have done for the South. However with the "eternal leader" currently taking some sort of extended nap, the situation is currently on hold. The North is rather secretive, which would explain why we have not heard much from Alan lately.

Let's hope Wally is not following this. I heard that in the bibliography in his last book that he mistakenly attributed his entire chapter on the "7th Daytona Coupe" to the user "LntCoBra" (typo?) from clubcobra, when my only contribution to that thread was a bit of skepticism. Having not read that book, I can't say whether someone is just playing a prank or me or perhaps just trying to get me to read the book.

[Nedsel]

Trevor, you might know as well as any of us, but it is clear that several "Cobras" running around the race tracks in Europe are in fact nothing of the sort; they are, instead, Kirkham or Hawk copies either masquerading as a given CSX # while the real car is in hiding or, in some cases, they are using a CSX # to which the owner of the clone has no legal claim. It's not a good situation and it shows no signs of slowing down.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Trevor, you might know as well as any of us, but it is clear that several "Cobras" running around the race tracks in Europe are in fact nothing of the sort; they are, instead, Kirkham or Hawk copies either masquerading as a given CSX # while the real car is in hiding or, in some cases, they are using a CSX # to which the owner of the clone has no legal claim. It's not a good situation and it shows no signs of slowing down.

Ned,

Do you mean to imply that there are "fake" cars about?!?!?

Say it ain't so Joe! (horrors!)

Where is Wally when we need him?

[Trevor Legate]

Ah, the legendary AC Mk XII. You wish......

[Nedsel]

I can't imagine what Mr. Wyss thinks the Cobra registrar does in his spare time.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Ah, the legendary AC Mk XII. You wish......

Well I do have a deposit on one....."AC" assures me it is under build and shortly to be ready for delivery. They just won't say where it is being built.

[Trevor Legate]

Ah, memories and precision. Not words you often read in the same sentence. I knew where 4004 had gone, as it was a car very familiar to me wheilst in the tender care of an ex-AC person, but as for where it 'really' is now....who can say fer sure? So many of these cars have gone into deep cover only to reappear in a new coat of paint, some race-ready accessories and a whole new life, not to say identity! Not suggesting for one moment that 4004 has been thus transformed, but one never knows, does one?

Likewise, but on a slightly different tack, one wonders what kind of identity the new Daytona(s) currently being built might enjoy when they receive their FIA papers and take to the Historic race events in Yurup. Now there's one to google!! The info is out there in public domain, but not, as far as I am aware, posted on this site.....

Ned - since when did the Cobra Registrar ever have 'spare time'? Clearly you are an imposter :-)

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Ah, memories and precision. Not words you often read in the same sentence. I knew where 4004 had gone, as it was a car very familiar to me wheilst in the tender care of an ex-AC person, but as for where it 'really' is now....who can say fer sure? So many of these cars have gone into deep cover only to reappear in a new coat of paint, some race-ready accessories and a whole new life, not to say identity! Not suggesting for one moment that 4004 has been thus transformed, but one never knows, does one?

Likewise, but on a slightly different tack, one wonders what kind of identity the new Daytona(s) currently being built might enjoy when they receive their FIA papers and take to the Historic race events in Yurup. Now there's one to google!! The info is out there in public domain, but not, as far as I am aware, posted on this site.....

Ned - since when did the Cobra Registrar ever have 'spare time'? Clearly you are an imposter :-)

Trevor,

Could you be talking about a Kirkham Coupe or a McCluskey Coupe?

[Trevor Legate]

Ned - indeed and they come out to play at Goodwood, Tour Auto, etc etc. Very few genuine cars are raced today. In the UK a couple of the most notable are CS(X) 2130 and COB 6008 which are the real deal.
To be honest, I wonder how some of these owners can live with themselves when they celebrate their so-called 'race wins'. But if you sponsor a headline race event, then (in Europe) you can rely on your fake going through sctuineering with roller rockers, trick suspension, 5-speed box (count the gear changes!!) while some of the genuine cars get the heavy treatment. Some many tales to tell, so few cheap lawyers....

1nt - No, neither.

[Nedsel]

[quote=Trevor Legate;1170906]Ned - ... Some many tales to tell, so few cheap lawyers....

Trevor - I suggest there are plenty of cheap lawyers. It's the inexpensive ones that are in short supply.