Whats CSX1001 Value? (Your Opinion)

[CSX1001]

My pics are to large to attach..Anyone know an easy way I can send them?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by CSX1001

My pics are to large to attach..Anyone know an easy way I can send them?

Don't use the attach feature, load them directly into your gallery by clicking the camera icon below your name.

[BigRed427]

Judging from the replies, glad you asked just for an 'opinion.'

I saw your car being built when I ordered mine a few years ago and was very impressed; it is a beauty. Contrary to an early post, you have a unique car in it is a factory built Genuine AC Shelby Cobra. This alone will add value as very few Cobra 427s leave Vegas as complete cars. Add the Shelby title history, the limited number of AC metal bodies, and you have more than a 4000 series car.

I do remember is looking at an AC body next to a Kirkham body. Hands down the AC body was superior. The welds and metal smoothness was noticeably better.

The price from Allan A for $165 sounds reasonable given the facts outlined above. As a point of reference, there is a metal CSX on CC for $129. You could always put it on EBay with a reserve to see what happens. Good luck.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by BigRed427

I do remember is looking at an AC body next to a Kirkham body. Hands down the AC body was superior. The welds and metal smoothness was noticeably better.

Yes, we're glad to be accpeting opinions from everyone, but I'm not sure what the above opinion/statement has to do with the value of the CSX1001.

Personally, I think all the value comments are fairly spot on in my opinion, with the only exception being the current economic problems in an election year. While I would think the car would approach the $200K mark in better times, it's a buyer's market and there are very few of them out there right now. Timing is everything.

[CSX1001]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Don't use the attach feature, load them directly into your gallery by clicking the camera icon below your name.

Thanks, I put a few pics of the bucks on my gallery. One was still to large. It is a real good closeup but I'll try to get it figured out and put it on.
Thanks

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

This is certainly debatable. Brian certainly started making replacement parts prior to getting officially involved with AC and had to make his own tooling to do so.

However, in an earlier thread, I mentioned that in an early SAAC magazine. AC while still under the Herlock's (sp?) ownership was offering to sell replacement bodies and chassis for a variety of Cobra body styles made from the original tooling. So in the late 1970's, AC still claimed to have the original tooling. And it was years later before Brian purchased equipment from AC. So it is possible that at some point Brian did acquire the original tooling. I'm not saying that he did, only that there is a possibility that he could have acquired it.

If I remember, I can scan the advertisement from the SAAC magazine after I get home.

Although the general consensus is that the 427 bucks were trashed, here is the advertisement I mentioned.



I think we'll need Ned or Trevor to explain what a "289 S/C" is.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CSX1001

I did contact SAAC shortly after I won the car and gave them the info I had as Titled to Carroll and the foundation raffle info etc for inclusion in the next registry. Don't know if they included it or not.... should have .. good point I will check on it and resubmit if necessary.

As far as the original bucks I have pictures of them and they do look old and the pic shows them as being used on CSX1000 cars. The pics were on Shelby Americans computer and Rich gave me copies of them when I was in Vegas at Carroll's 85 birthday. I'm not sure how to post these but would be happy to if someone can guide me. I 'm not real good at navigating the website yet.
Thanks for your input.
Gary

Your information did not make the new registry. It shows the car as retained by Shelby and on display in Las Vegas.

Once you have the pictures in your gallery, you can copy the text in the box that says "Medium URL" into your post. Here are pictures of the bucks from your gallery:





The bucks do look old. But that is no guarantee that they are original. Old looking bucks could have been created by Brian Angliss in the 1970's. And the current owner of AC, Alan Lubinsky probably has no idea if they are original or not. But I'm sure that did not stop him from making that claim.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Although the general consensus is that the 427 bucks were trashed, here is the advertisement I mentioned.



I think we'll need Ned or Trevor to explain what a "289 S/C" is.

I might be missing your point.... what does bucks in 1977 have to do with when this car was made?

And my guess on the 289 S/C would be a misused name for the AC Sports 289.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I might be missing your point.... what does bucks in 1977 have to do with when this car was made?

And my guess on the 289 S/C would be a misused name for the AC Sports 289.

I was arguing that the 427 buck may have still existed in 1977 and still belonged to AC. Other posters argue that it was no longer in existence at that point and that Brian Angliss had built his own 427 buck by then. The advertisement implies that the original "mold" would be used to create replacement bodies. Someone else claimed that the AC replacement bodies were actually made by Brian Angliss and that AC was just acting as a middle man, and they were simply cut out of the picture when you could just buy the bodies from Brian directly.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I was arguing that the 427 buck may have still existed in 1977 and still belonged to AC. Other posters argue that it was no longer in existence at that point and that Brian Angliss had built his own 427 buck by then. The advertisement implies that the original "mold" would be used to create replacement bodies. Someone else claimed that the AC replacement bodies were actually made by Brian Angliss and that AC was just acting as a middle man, and they were simply cut out of the picture when you could just buy the bodies from Brian directly.

I see. That all makes sense, but is still over 20-25 years ago and several business owners from when the car was made. I'll be the first to admit I don't know for sure WHO actually made the CSX1000 series bodies, but if I had to guess, I'd guess maybe Brooklands.

I am sure once Ron, Trev, or some of the other Cobra smarts see those pics, they will know if they are the original bucks or not. Just going off my memory of seeing pics in the past, they don't look like them to me.

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by CSX1001

My pics are to large to attach..Anyone know an easy way I can send them?

You can put the images in your gallery, then when you view them large it will give you the URL which you can come back and use as link.

Nice car. I'd sure like to have one like it.

[1ntCobra]

Trevor,

I hope you don't mind me scanning a picture from your book...

Here is the Brian Angliss AC MkIV body bucks. The one on the left does look significantly different than the pictures from Gary's gallery. I don't think the buck on the right looks like the one from Gary's pictures either.



However the AC MkIV body is different than the 427 Cobra body, so a new buck would have been made just for the AC MkIV body. The assumption is that the pictures in Gary's gallery are of a Brian Angliss replacement buck from the 1970s. It is interesting to note that AC MkIV buck built by Brian in the 1980s looks significantly different, but that does not prove anything.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by CSX1001

Thanks, I put a few pics of the bucks on my gallery. One was still to large. It is a real good closeup but I'll try to get it figured out and put it on.
Thanks

That looks like one of the original 289 nose bucks they gave you pics of. The trunk lid is common between the 289 and 427, so you can say the trunk lid skin was made off the original tooling.

Angliss did employ some of the workers from the Cobra line in the 60's, but over the years many/most retired or passed away. I know the guy who did the upholstery work at Autokraft/AC for many years and even he only started working at AC I recall in the 70's (before joining Angliss). Even if some of them came in after the Cobra period of the 60's, many of Angliss' employees, however, did "cut their teeth" at AC and the skills were transferred along even at Autokraft, so whatever techniques were used to make the original cars were carried over for some period of time.

It seems to me that any car like CSX1001 that originates from suppliers closer to the original scenario has to be worth more than one made all in California (or Africa or where ever the parts have recently been made).

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

...

The source of the body bucks isn't that important to the value either. Even if they were the originals (which they were not), the value would have come from the original people pounding on them, not the bucks themselves. Heck, most original cars weren't shaped the same anyway.

...

Even with the damage done to AC by Alan Lubinsky, I still think the AC connection to the CSX 1000 series adds value. I would think a connection to the original tooling would be valuable, but apparently it is not the original buck. It would also be interesting to use the original people, yet all of them are probably retired by now. Consider that some people prefer a Shelby CSX Cobra to a Kirkham replica, yet the original Shelby people like Remington, Brock, Miles, etc. are not employed by the current SAI company.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Dcmgt

That looks like one of the original 289 nose bucks they gave you pics of. The trunk lid is common between the 289 and 427, so you can say the trunk lid skin was made off the original tooling.

...

It is interesting that apparently the 289 body buck was kept by AC, but the 427 body buck went in the dumpster. Why keep one, but not the other?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Even with the damage done to AC by Alan Lubinsky, I still think the AC connection to the CSX 1000 series adds value. I would think a connection to the original tooling would be valuable, but apparently it is not the original buck. It would also be interesting to use the original people, yet all of them are probably retired by now. Consider that some people prefer a Shelby CSX Cobra to a Kirkham replica, yet the original Shelby people like Remington, Brock, Miles, etc. are not employed by the current SAI company.

Yes I agree, and I am not saying the CSX1000 doesn't have a higher value over a CSX4000 series. I absolutely believe it does. I just don't think it's a considerable number, in the resale market. I don't believe that people are going to pay a considerable amount of money more for a CSX1000 car over a nice alloy CSX4000 car. I really don't think the AC "connection" on the CSX1000 series add enough value to warrant a large dollar value increase.

Here's a similar scenario.... Backdraft Coupe vs SPF Coupe. Both priced very similarly, yet the SPF Coupe was actually designed by Peter Brock. Not inspired by Brock, or endorsed by Brock, but actually designed by him. And yet there's no added "dollar value" from that over other similar quality Coupes.

If that makes sense to you, that's the point I am making on the CSX1000 deal.

[CSX1001]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Don't use the attach feature, load them directly into your gallery by clicking the camera icon below your name.

Thanks Sal.. I still have a beautiful pic of the Bucks that I can't upload to gallery and would like people to see it but it says size too large.
Can I email it to someone who knows how to get it in where people can see it??
Thanks

[Trevor Legate]

Morning all

The first image shows the 289 nose buck, which I'm told is original. I have been told that Angliss had to make his own bucks when he was trading as CP Autokraft in the early 70s. He then made a whole 427 from scratch just to see if he could. Why the 289 was kept and not the 427 is anyones guess!

As for the AC ali panels being 'better' than the Kirkham...wellll, hmm, depends on how you interpret 'better'. I can assure you my 427 (from the AC bucks of whatever vintage) required a whole lot more body filler to iron out the dips & bumps. The paint shop have sprayed circa 3 AC bodies and 5 Kirkhams - they love the Kirkhams as they require minimal prep work. Nice and smooth like a babys bumper. The AC bodies require hours and hours - and hours...they tell me!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Yes I agree, and I am not saying the CSX1000 doesn't have a higher value over a CSX4000 series. I absolutely believe it does. I just don't think it's a considerable number, in the resale market. I don't believe that people are going to pay a considerable amount of money more for a CSX1000 car over a nice alloy CSX4000 car. I really don't think the AC "connection" on the CSX1000 series add enough value to warrant a large dollar value increase.

Here's a similar scenario.... Backdraft Coupe vs SPF Coupe. Both priced very similarly, yet the SPF Coupe was actually designed by Peter Brock. Not inspired by Brock, or endorsed by Brock, but actually designed by him. And yet there's no added "dollar value" from that over other similar quality Coupes.

If that makes sense to you, that's the point I am making on the CSX1000 deal.

I agree with Alan, around $165K , give or take some. I believe there are no more CSX1000's being made, with just 10 or 20 made. So there is definitely a limited supply, and all it takes is one buyer. If your willing to wait for that buyer, I bet you would get 165 at some point, maybe right away, maybe not.

The coupe thing is not exactly the same, as neither the Brock coupe or the BDR coupe are identical to the originals in design/construction, which I believe detracts from the value for some, maybe alot, of the consumers, where as the CSX1000 car is identical in construction to the original, as are the alum Csx4000's and kirkhams.

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Morning all

The first image shows the 289 nose buck, which I'm told is original. I have been told that Angliss had to make his own bucks when he was trading as CP Autokraft in the early 70s. He then made a whole 427 from scratch just to see if he could. Why the 289 was kept and not the 427 is anyones guess!

As for the AC ali panels being 'better' than the Kirkham...wellll, hmm, depends on how you interpret 'better'. I can assure you my 427 (from the AC bucks of whatever vintage) required a whole lot more body filler to iron out the dips & bumps. The paint shop have sprayed circa 3 AC bodies and 5 Kirkhams - they love the Kirkhams as they require minimal prep work. Nice and smooth like a babys bumper. The AC bodies require hours and hours - and hours...they tell me!

Hi Trevor,
That was also my understanding from someone who has painted numerous "original" Cobras for Frank Sytner. To quote him, "..they are more filler than metal." That might be a little harsh, but you get the idea.

Paul