Shelby vs. Kirkham

[csx700?]

For those interested?

It appears that european importation of vehicles is very strigent. If he vehicle being imported has documentation that says that it is a "1965 Shelby Cobra" then it ha to conform to the vehicle safety laws that were in place at that time. That being said unfortunately for the Kirkhams they were not building vehicles as early as this and have to comply with more current safety standards (bumpers, airbags, seat belts, etc).

[Jamo]

Are you talking about new vehicles (?), because Kirkhams are sold in Europe through English and German brokers, and several folks have sold their completed Kirkhams (and other makes such as SPFs, etc.) to European buyers.

[csx700?]

Jamo
This is information that I was given from people in both the UK and France. One had bought a fiberglass 7000 series and the other had bought a Kirkham car here in the states that was titled as a 1965 Shelby and exported to the UK. The glass 7000 series was also bought in the states and exported to France. Both buyers told me that they wouldn't even consider trying to import a cobra that did not have Shelby registration because of the difficulties of meeting thier governments regulations.

*As for the cobras being produced in Europe by the Kirkham's or others I do not know what regulations or documents they need or how theyare getting around those requirements?*

[csx700?]

Maybe Dave or Tom can chime in on this subject? I know they have dealings with Gerry Hawkridge in the UK.

[REAL 1]

You won't see me saying anying bad about a Kirkham Cobra or the Kirkhams. They are great guys, great company with an exceptional product. This is probably why SAI sources their aluminum Cobras from Kirkham.

Kirkham was added to the Registry for the exact reason to keep track of them because they are pretty dead nuts accurate. I'm sure Ron can comment on this. I also believe that Kirkham was added to the registry because they in essence are the modern day AC. They have cloned the Cobra nearly exactly, so close in fact they are highly respected in the Cobra community by such illuminaries as McKlusky, Lynn Park etc..and they supply parts for restoration of original Cobras.

Shelbys command more money because they are well...Shelbys. In fact original Shelby Cobras (CSXs) nearly across the board command more money then original AC Cobras (either COB or COXs). Why, very simply because they are Shelbys. There is an added value that many place on the name like it or not and likely the name will always command premium. For those that don't care they buy the non Shelby / non CSX whether its in the original realm or continuation realm.

I can say that SAI has always been fair with me and took care of any issues that I had in a fair and responsible way and always did the right thing by me. Thats my experience.

Someone needs to be specific though about their claims that the Kirkham Aluminum Cobra is better mechanically (I know its limited to suspension) then the aluminum Shelby. What specifically is better and why? I can say that a number of guys who know their stuff mechanically and have built replicas like Contemporarys and ERAs have looked at the underside of my Shelby on the lift and were VERY impressed and commented that the design and suspension of the Shelby was superior to their cars. I didn't say it they did. Don't shoot the messenger.

The suspension on the aluminum Shelbys pretty much exactly dupilcates what is/was found on the 1965 Cobra. If you want a Cobra isn't that what you want? If you want superiror design then you really don't want a Cobra you want something that looks like a Cobra but is superior in design then what they were.

I wanted a Cobra with all its pluses and all its warts. I wanted it the way it was. They are what they are. Isn't that the allure, magic and charm of it all though? Sometimes improving things subtracts from the experience and essence of what its supposed to be.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't know if it's better or worse, but the Kirkham does weigh about 200-300 lbs lighter than a comparable CSX, and I assume it's been all the years and iterations of that the Kirkhams have spent updating their billet aluminum suspension or another example would be the U-joints to CV joints. BTW, my car weighed in at 2,128 lbs.

Evan, this is what I said. I said I don't know if it's better or not, but the Kirkhams claim that it is lighter in older threads. They also R&D their suspension (e.g., some of the Larry Ellison improvements are trickling down to the production cars) as well as other parts of the car, though some or all of these improvements move it further away from being authentic.

[soulman]

Originally Posted by csx700?

Jamo
This is information that I was given from people in both the UK and France. One had bought a fiberglass 7000 series and the other had bought a Kirkham car here in the states that was titled as a 1965 Shelby and exported to the UK. The glass 7000 series was also bought in the states and exported to France. Both buyers told me that they wouldn't even consider trying to import a cobra that did not have Shelby registration because of the difficulties of meeting thier governments regulations.

*As for the cobras being produced in Europe by the Kirkham's or others I do not know what regulations or documents they need or how theyare getting around those requirements?*

Its even harder in Australia, i imported my car from the US and although having 65 title it was a nightmare and very expensive to register.
And i was lucky!

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by csx700?

Jamo
This is information that I was given from people in both the UK and France. One had bought a fiberglass 7000 series and the other had bought a Kirkham car here in the states that was titled as a 1965 Shelby and exported to the UK. The glass 7000 series was also bought in the states and exported to France. Both buyers told me that they wouldn't even consider trying to import a cobra that did not have Shelby registration because of the difficulties of meeting thier governments regulations.

*As for the cobras being produced in Europe by the Kirkham's or others I do not know what regulations or documents they need or how theyare getting around those requirements?*

Wait a ******* minute. From conversations with two folks...one who tried to import into the UK a Kirkham with a ******** state registration as an original 1965 Shelby, and one other Shelby (facts unknown)...you extrapulate a self-created rule from your own legal experience that Kirkhams would need airbags, bumpers etc., and yet you infer a modern CSX would not?

Bad enough when folks start sh!t just to start ****...but there is no way in **** complete and utter ******** pulled out of the air will be allowed to stand just to stoke the fires.

Obviously, time has not allowed your long-standing approach of throwing **** out there to evolve into anything approaching logical discussion.

You are banned from this thread...period.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by csx700?

Maybe Dave or Tom can chime in on this subject? I know they have dealings with Gerry Hawkridge in the UK.

Duh...you should've considered that a few posts ago, especially since I referenced them selling through folks in the UK and Germany.

I may start handing out suspensions based on stupidity. Lord knows I have for bad spelling/grammar.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You won't see me saying anying bad about a Kirkham Cobra or the Kirkhams. They are great guys, great company with an exceptional product. This is probably why SAI sources their aluminum Cobras from Kirkham.

Kirkham was added to the Registry for the exact reason to keep track of them because they are pretty dead nuts accurate. I'm sure Ron can comment on this. I also believe that Kirkham was added to the registry because they in essence are the modern day AC. They have cloned the Cobra nearly exactly, so close in fact they are highly respected in the Cobra community by such illuminaries as McKlusky, Lynn Park etc..and they supply parts for restoration of original Cobras.

Shelbys command more money because they are well...Shelbys. In fact original Shelby Cobras (CSXs) nearly across the board command more money then original AC Cobras (either COB or COXs). Why, very simply because they are Shelbys. There is an added value that many place on the name like it or not and likely the name will always command premium. For those that don't care they buy the non Shelby / non CSX whether its in the original realm or continuation realm.

I can say that SAI has always been fair with me and took care of any issues that I had in a fair and responsible way and always did the right thing by me. Thats my experience.

Someone needs to be specific though about their claims that the Kirkham Aluminum Cobra is better mechanically (I know its limited to suspension) then the aluminum Shelby. What specifically is better and why? I can say that a number of guys who know their stuff mechanically and have built replicas like Contemporarys and ERAs have looked at the underside of my Shelby on the lift and were VERY impressed and commented that the design and suspension of the Shelby was superior to their cars. I didn't say it they did. Don't shoot the messenger.

The suspension on the aluminum Shelbys pretty much exactly dupilcates what is/was found on the 1965 Cobra. If you want a Cobra isn't that what you want? If you want superiror design then you really don't want a Cobra you want something that looks like a Cobra but is superior in design then what they were.

I wanted a Cobra with all its pluses and all its warts. I wanted it the way it was. They are what they are. Isn't that the allure, magic and charm of it all though? Sometimes improving things subtracts from the experience and essence of what its supposed to be.

Yup...so did I, and I got it. Every damn bit as original as yours.

Course...folks have a choice when they go to Kirkham.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by soulman

Its even harder in Australia, i imported my car from the US and although having 65 title it was a nightmare and very expensive to register.
And i was lucky!

The next person who can't figure out why a modern Cobra titled as something it's not (a 1965 Cobra) is tough to export/import is going to get a 7-day suspension.

[Allan A]

Jamo,

Can I still comment.

[Jamo]

Yes...last I heard, you registered yours correctly.

You just can't drive worth a damn.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The suspension on the aluminum Shelbys pretty much exactly dupilcates what is/was found on the 1965 Cobra. If you want a Cobra isn't that what you want? If you want superiror design then you really don't want a Cobra you want something that looks like a Cobra but is superior in design then what they were.

I wanted a Cobra with all its pluses and all its warts. I wanted it the way it was. They are what they are. Isn't that the allure, magic and charm of it all though? Sometimes improving things subtracts from the experience and essence of what its supposed to be.

Evan, I got what I wanted. A real Kirkham Cobra that has been updated and as you say has "superior design." My reality is that I have a real Cobra and my driving experience is no different than yours when you drive your Shelby Cobra.

I like the Kirkham "bling" (lighter billet aluminum) underneath my body. I opted for a Quicktime bellhousing, single battery in trunk, aluminum block, Tremec 5-speed and I'm looking for a set of magnesium Halibrand wheels. Lighter is better, in my little tiny part of the Universe. Who knows Webers or maybe even an SOHC may be in my distant or not too distant future world.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I opted for a ... single battery in trunk.

Why, out of curiosity? The usual reason for moving the battery back is weight distribution, which doesn't seem to be necessary in these cars. It was done in the originals for race safety reasons, correct?

[Allan A]

Jamo,

Just show up at SAAC and don't tell me your car is leaking oil again, please bring Cheerleader she set up the best lunch ever.

Rod,

Please give it a rest.

Allan

[Jamo]

You done?

I hate Sears Point...walls (oh, sorry...you know about the walls).

But maybe...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Allan A

Rod,

Please give it a rest.

Allan

Allan, I'm commenting and/or answering Evan's earlier post in a thread that's entitled "Shelby versus Kirkham." So, my apologies to you, but no, I won't give it rest.

[soulman]

Originally Posted by Jamo

The next person who can't figure out why a modern Cobra titled as something it's not (a 1965 Cobra) is tough to export/import is going to get a 7-day suspension.

Is this guy for Real?

Relax...maybe open up some windows and get some fresh air in !

i was merely adding my experience !

[csx700?]

Jamo
YOU, would be the first to be suspended, you ******* idiot!!! They happened to get the cars into thier respective countries BECAUSE they were titled as "65 COBRAS", that's all that appears to be needed when importing these cars!!! If you had bought a 'SAI' cobra you would realize they come with a "MSO" that states it is a "1965 COBRA". I'm not playing one manufacture over another here (I will always be a Kirkham fan), I'm just stating a reason for difficult importation problems.