Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[David Kirkham]

Fellow Car Nuts:

We are having a friendly dispute here in the land of aluminum bodied Chariots of Fire. The question is, assuming the same price (which is a BIG assumption that would undoubtedly prove to be UNtrue, but humor me please)...

If you were to purchase a new Kirkham and had your choice of the old original 4" style chassis or the new billet aluminum chassis we are making for a customer (remember, assuming the same price) which would you rather have?

For those of you who don't know about the billet chassis, here is the link.

http://clubcobra.com/forums/showthre...d=85278&page=1

Thanks!

David

[Power Surge]

The billet chassis is neat, but I would not want it in my car.

Since I like originality in my Cobra, I prefer an original chassis with original style suspension.

But I feel the original style chassis with the billet suspension parts your now offer is the hot setup for the average guy.

What I WOULD like to see, is you build a steel 4" tube chassis that uses the pushrod suspension. THAT, is what I'd like to see.

[ENTDOC]

original. The stainless option was acceptable but I would not buy one with a billet chassis.

[David Kirkham]

ENTDOC,

Curiously, what don't you like about the billet chassis?

David

[RodKnock]

What are the benefits, to the consumer, of the billet chassis over the original 4"?

[Lew Ledyard]

I am in the same boat with Entdoc. I like the period piece. My car isn't exactly like what was made in 1965, but it embodies the feel and spirit of what was available (although executed to a degree that is a million times better than the original). We have come a long way in the past 40+ years, but the compromises and short comings of the old design are part of the appeal for me.

That being said, my house is 150 years old, my newest motorcycle is older than my wife and I still think that the Rolling Stones are the greatest rock and roll band, so there is a pattern....

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

What are the benefits, to the consumer, of the billet chassis over the original 4"?

In theory (not proved until tested).

Aluminum chassis is on the order of 300% stiffer. It should handle much better.

The suspension has been significantly upgraded and tuned to the best we could make it.

CG of the billet chassis is moved back 2 inches. I know that doesn't sound like much, but that is about the same a small block is moved back from a big block. An aluminum small block with all the aluminum goodies (flywheel, water pump, etc.) is lighter than the old iron block and heads 289's of old.

Fianlly, no matter how you look at it, the aluminum chassis is pretty cool.

David

[mr bruce]

Seems like a waste of your machinery and talents, Cobras have been done everywich way already.Keep them vintage. you want to play with new tech, do something like a mosler, honeycomb samich chassis, new tech suspension, etc.

[ENTDOC]

David, for the same reason a JBL or Cutting Edge Cobra does not appeal to me. If I wanted the latest, greatest tech ,I would buy something on the order of RCR's SLC or similar. A cobra is a 60's car and a Kirkham( at least in its original design) embodies the best of that era in terms of duplication. I will compromise on modern brakes and better materials but not in execution or spirit.

[RodKnock]

Lew, you made it through a post with the Kirkhams without asking about them making the MAGNESIUM WHEELS! Progress.

David, I don't know what is meant by "CG", but would the exterior design change at all? If an expert, and we have a lot of them here on CC, were to look only at up top (i.e., engine compartment, trunk, interior, etc.), not from underneath, then would the billet chassis make the exterior look different?

I'm inclined to vote to make the car better, and the frame appearance isn't as important to me, but I would want everything that's visual to the eye to look period correct or am I asking too much?

[Richie18]

As long as the car's exterior shape and look are kept then i think by all means suspension performance/technology should be pursued. How many times does anyone see the suspension on any cobra owner's vehicles? And if they did what would be at all disappointing about a suspension that uses new technology?

Why not make the car be able to better handle some 500hp when that is what is typically seen in these cars?

A billet aluminum chassis would impress anyone.

[ENTDOC]

a billet aluminum chassis would not impress me I assure you

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Richie18

As long as the car's exterior shape and look are kept then i think by all means suspension performance/technology should be pursued. How many times does anyone see the suspension on any cobra owner's vehicles? And if they did what would be at all disappointing about a suspension that uses new technology?

Why not make the car be able to better handle some 500hp when that is what is typically seen in these cars?

A billet aluminum chassis would impress anyone.

I agree, that's what was attempting to say.

[xlr8or]

David,
I think it will really depend on the intended purpose of the car. If the billet chassis and push rod suspension have greatly improved handling, those that track the car would appreciate it more than those who's primary use is on the street.

Why not take that billet chassis and make something new? Something that has better aerodynamics than a brick. Cobra's have a visceral, vintage appeal why screw that up?

Scott

[Sharroll Celby]

Originally Posted by Richie18

As long as the car's exterior shape and look are kept then i think by all means suspension performance/technology should be pursued. How many times does anyone see the suspension on any cobra owner's vehicles? And if they did what would be at all disappointing about a suspension that uses new technology?

Why not make the car be able to better handle some 500hp when that is what is typically seen in these cars?

A billet aluminum chassis would impress anyone.

This sums up my feelings as well.


Would I be able to call my car a .........................COBRA? !!! lol !!!

I could deliver my Cobra lookalike thingy and you can practice building your billet stuff on my car. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for billet stuff TODAY!!! lol !!!

[Joe Wicked]

CG is center of gravity.

[jmarsey]

Good points being made here and there is more to it.

A pure design methodology would carry through the entire car, including the body, shape, wheel base, track, and all the bits, etc. In other words, why wrap a state of the art chassis with a period authentic 40+ year old wrapper? Why not carry your talented design sensibilities further to inform all aspects of the car?

On another note,
What most people misunderstand about the JBL is that it is not trying to be a cobra replica. It does resemble one but far from a replica. The car was designed all at once, meaning, Richard didn’t start with a cobra body and try to fit his ideology under it. The chassis was designed and a cobra styled body to fit it. Not everyone’s cup of tea but to me it’s a blend of styles and ideas that I can appreciate. But as I always tell folks, if I ever build a “cobra” it will be a Kirkham, period.

Incredible work David, as usual. I think your copper cobra was truly a pure expression of materials and methods. Quite beautiful too.

Talk soon, John :>

[Igofastr]

David,

Original frame with original suspension.

If I'd have wanted a "modern" car, I'd have purchased one. I wanted a '60s era race car (a cobra), and Kirkham is as close to that as can be found.

Don't get me wrong, I think all the CNC work is neat, as are the technological upgrades. But to me, it makes no sense putting all of that in a dated body such as the cobra. If someone wants a modern racer, buy a Stohr DSR.

But hey, to each his own.

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by jmarsey

Good points being made here and there is more to it.

A pure design methodology would carry through the entire car, including the body, shape, wheel base, track, and all the bits, etc. In other words, why wrap a state of the art chassis with a period authentic 40+ year old wrapper? Why not carry your talented design sensibilities further to inform all aspects of the car?

Talk soon, John :>

John, my point exactly.

I like your JBL too.

[ENTDOC]

I actually do understand what a JBL is, but of course if it resembled anything other than a cobra you would not be on this site, so it is a cobra of sorts. But , that is also my point. A kirkham with billet frame and push rod suspension exceeds my personal definition of a cobra, at that point it is a car that resembles a cobra. That is not what most people buy a Kirkham for, it is what everone that buys a JBL wants.