Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[Hoofa]

"what is the draw of tubes?"

The only tubes I really care about are the big ass 4" ones. When I saw my first Cobra as a kid, thought it was cool then I looked under it and saw the tubes, that's when I fell in love. It just looked so strong. But I also love new technology. You already know my solution to that. Although my new chassis idea is a complete departure from tubes too.

"if I am going to change the chassis a little...why not go whole hog and get rid of as many of the evil characteristics as possible?"
That was my feeling on the body, I changed the scoop, next thing you know the body was cut into pieces. Some people hate it some absolutely love it. I don't really care either way... I'm havin fun, looks like you guys are too. Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve. What a great time to be alive, with this technology and software anyone can easily build their dream. Do you guys have a 3d printer yet?

[1ntCobra]

David,

One of these days I plan on having a Cobra replica, but I'm not sure a Kirkham will be in my price range. I always thought I'd want a Kirkham because I could get one as close to an original as possible. The thought of the billet pieces in the suspension and even the pedals had no interest to me at first. But over time, I'm starting to think of them as being cool, and that car does not have to be completely original. Now this billet suspension is just too cool. Well I certainly don't have the money, but if I hit the lottery, I'll take one of each type of suspension.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

David,

One of these days I plan on having a Cobra replica, but I'm not sure a Kirkham will be in my price range. I always thought I'd want a Kirkham because I could get one as close to an original as possible. The thought of the billet pieces in the suspension and even the pedals had no interest to me at first. But over time, I'm starting to think of them as being cool, and that car does not have to be completely original. Now this billet suspension is just too cool. Well I certainly don't have the money, but if I hit the lottery, I'll take one of each type of suspension.

Funny, that is really how I feel about it. Over time I have just gotten to like the billet stuff more and more. When I look at the old welded stuff (especially when you have to pick it up!) I just say "pass" now.

David

[KM480]

There are countless ways to improve on cars of the 50's and 60's. Even wicked fast ones that were intended for racing 4 decades ago. But when I bought my Kirkham I wasn't looking for the ultimate 'supercar' in the sense of a McLaren F1 or Enzo. I wanted something that harkened back to the time when the world was less litigious and less restrictive. Having a car that looks like a 60's icon on top as well as under the skin was the goal.

The billet chassis is truly amazing piece and has it's place...However, I would not choose to have it under my Cobra. If you were to put it under a equally sophisticated and aerodynamic body that would be really appealing car.

There are just some of us that don't want a stereo or a/c in our cobra while it is nice to have in our modern car.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by KM480

There are countless ways to improve on cars of the 50's and 60's. Even wicked fast ones that were intended for racing 4 decades ago. But when I bought my Kirkham I wasn't looking for the ultimate 'supercar' in the sense of a McLaren F1 or Enzo. I wanted something that harkened back to the time when the world was less litigious and less restrictive. Having a car that looks like a 60's icon on top as well as under the skin was the goal.

The billet chassis is truly amazing piece and has it's place...However, I would not choose to have it under my Cobra. If you were to put it under a equally sophisticated and aerodynamic body that would be really appealing car.

There are just some of us that don't want a stereo or a/c in our cobra while it is nice to have in our modern car.

KMP480,

I do understand what you mean about harkening back to the earlier days. As for an equally sophisticated aerodynamic body, hopefully that is in the works one of these days!

David



Sal, no offense taken at all! I knew what you meant.

[RedBarchetta]

I believe for a lot of people (including myself), a Kirkham has always been "a faithful, aluminum bodied creation of the original" and about as close one can get to an original without completely breaking the bank. The alternative was always to wait in line for Shelby to get around building one for you (and we all know too well those war stories). And it wouldn't necessarily be aluminum skinned either.

To appeal to a broader audience (ie. younger?), the genesis of the company has evolved to more billet components. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a cost to providing multiple options to the clientele. I like the idea of having some billet suspension components (I drive a C5 Z06 daily so I get the aluminium suspension stuff). I'm just not sure I've turned the corner yet on having it under a Kirkham, which for me is a car that when you get in and drive it feels like 1965 all over again. It's supposed to be naturally raw, and not necessarily refined.

My $0.02 (which is worth a whole lot less than that).

-Dean

[Jim Doak]

While the billet chassis is truly a work of art, I voted for the original 4” frame with the billet suspension.

Like some others have stated, more or less, the “Cobra” is a retro car and as such, a state-of-the-art aluminum chassis doesn’t really maintain the flavor of the original. However, I’d love to see the billet chassis car in action out at Miller’s track. Maybe have a comparable, similarly setup standard chassis car out there as a benchmark...

[KM480]

Dave,

You might be pretty close with your marketing parameters when it comes to demographics and affinity toward originality or billet. I however would break that pattern. 38 years old and while I certainly stand awestruck at precisely machined pieces out of billet...I have even more appreciation at the sheets of flat aluminum or steel beaten by hand into beautiful forms.

I would love to see you expand your horizons with the company and take the billet chassis as far as it can go... give the mega$$$ exotics something to really fear...

But at the same time a lot of us would love to see more vintage stuff.

When I have driven performance cars of the last decade or two...c5/6 vettes, Mustangs, 350Z, 911's and the NSX, I have found myself almost bored. Yes I was doing 60-70 mph on some pretty tight roads, but the thrill was not really there... almost too easy. New cars are great and they can turn some great track times. But I like that "Oh Sh$%!!!" factor too.

I'm afraid to contemplate what I will think will be cool when I am 50-60!!

~Chuck

[thorconstr]

I wonder, of all the cars on this site, and all the talk of purity and exactness, how many cars actually fill the bill? Down to the frame, body, block, cam, carburetor, tires, paint, etc. I mean really, part way doesn't get it! 2, 3, a dozen, not likely. Good poll material here!

[David Kirkham]

Al,

You make a very interesting point.

Let's see...

Thomas Kirkham
David Kirkham
Jamo
Ron Richards
Mike Pack
Bert Brown
????

Not sure there really are too many more. Anyone else? You will have to be pre KMP0175 or so and Kirkham sold many of the first 175 cars to Shelby. In actuality, there are very, very, very few accurate cars. From what I remember, Shelby changed their cars very early on with welded uprights and other changes. I doubt there are many Shelby's that are absolutely accurate to original either. I would like to know, however, when Shelby actually changed things in their production. Maybe someone from Shelby could chime in and help???

David

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

You will have to be pre KMP0175 or so and Kirkham sold many of the first 175 cars to Shelby. In actuality, there are very, very, very few accurate cars. From what I remember, Shelby changed their cars very early on with welded uprights and other changes. I doubt there are many Shelby's that are absolutely accurate to original either. I would like to know, however, when Shelby actually changed things in their production. Maybe someone from Shelby could chime in and help???

David

It depends on how accurate you mean. The early cars had girling brakes as standard, but later ones have the vented discs, with the girlings as an upgrade. As far as the suspension, I think all the CSX4000 cars, the early ones, with tubular front control arms had adjustment nuts on them, unlike the original, for easier camber adjustment. Obviously, the CSX4000 cars had aluminum diffs, where the original had cast iron diffs. I wouldn't think anybody would make everything compltely accurate, and just accept the car from Shelby as delivered/optioned.

[thorconstr]

David, You're up late! Are you on mountain time?

[HI Cobra]

David,

How about 142 formerly owned by Budman?
Looks like it is closer than most.
Now owned by me!

[David Kirkham]

Al, sorry, I missed you! Yes, we are on Mountain Time here in Utah and this project certainly keeps me up late!

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by HI Cobra

David,

How about 142 formerly owned by Budman?
Looks like it is closer than most.
Now owned by me!

HI Cobra,

You are right! Anything under serial number 172 (I edited this as it used to say 171--further research from Ron Richards reminded me which car was Jeff's car) will have all original parts (unless they were later updated with our billet suspension parts--which many of the cars were!) KMP172 was the first car to get billet aluminum parts. It left with billet front upper control arms.

Nevertheless, the list is still quite small.

Of the 171 cars that had the original type suspension on them, around 100 were sold to Shelby. Some are now gone. Many, (I imagine around 20) had the suspensions updated to the billet stuff later in their life. At most, there might be 50 or so of our cars with the original type suspension, wiring, etc. out there. We still do make original spec cars, but they are pretty rare. (Even though we are delivering 5 of them in the next week or so.) But almost all of them are on their way to (or already in) Europe.

David

[kris-kincaid]

David, no 427 Shelby's ever used weldment uprights. Thats a Shelby 289 thing only.

I'm all about original myself. On my car I have scrounged together a completely original style suspension, other than the brakes. If I could afford Girlings, it would have those too. When I build my FIA, it is going to have completely original suspension too with no adjustments available except toe in the front.

I've never driven an original style Cobra and thought it had handling problems. I REALLY like to drive 289's. I drive these cars gently and I don't abuse them, so maybe thats why I enjoy them as is without all the racy stuff.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by kris-kincaid

David, no 427 Shelby's ever used weldment uprights. Thats a Shelby 289 thing only.

I'm all about original myself. On my car I have scrounged together a completely original style suspension, other than the brakes. If I could afford Girlings, it would have those too. When I build my FIA, it is going to have completely original suspension too with no adjustments available except toe in the front.

I've never driven an original style Cobra and thought it had handling problems. I REALLY like to drive 289's. I drive these cars gently and I don't abuse them, so maybe thats why I enjoy them as is without all the racy stuff.

Thanks for the inside info! You have to get really on the cars before the really evil things start to show rear their ugly heads.

David

[Hoofa]

I was on the beach this weekend dreaming about chassis'. I don't think it would be practical for the numbers here, but to make this chassis available to the masses. This process might come in handy: http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global...nnovation.html

If you already have the files in Solidworks it seems as if it would only be a couple clicks away for a mold???? But then again I haven't gotten to that area of Solidworks yet.

[Jamo]

Like you note, depends on build date as well...mine (184) and Jeff's (173) were built original-style, but then Jeff went all blingy up front. Pat's (now Dave's) 185 was also built original-style chassis-wise.

Ron's (178), when completed in the year 2037, will be the most original of all, but will likely be converted to run on bio-diesel given the probable lack of any more refined petroleum products left on this particular planet by then.

[computerworks]

ha....ha.....



Jeff is 173.