Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[1985 CCX]

David,

I love your cars and maybe someday I will own a nicely appointed Slabside. It is a need that will need to be realized at some point.

As for the frame: 4" ROUND TUBE
Why: I love the cars for their classic drive
Preference: Slabside transverse leaf however I would sacrifice originality for the Coilover hybrid. 427 car = 4" ROUND TUBE.........
Why I love KMS: They are great aluminum reproductions of a great classic line of cars......Masterfully executed I must add.

To be honest the round tube frame is what sold me on the Contemporary. I love the Cobra because it replicates a historically significant car and drives like one. If I wanted a space age frame I would also want the corresponding body = Lotus, Vette, Panoz, or FFR GTM.

Would I ever buy a KMS Cobra with billet frame: No
Would I buy a KMS billet frame shrouded by a supercar aluminum boby: YES, after a KMS Cobra with 4" round tubular frame of course!

No tubes is like no boobs.........

[Beejay]

I would love a billet chassis.

Pretending I am driving a real 60's Cobra is not for me!

Ben

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Richie18

As long as the car's exterior shape and look are kept then i think by all means suspension performance/technology should be pursued. How many times does anyone see the suspension on any cobra owner's vehicles? And if they did what would be at all disappointing about a suspension that uses new technology?

Why not make the car be able to better handle some 500hp when that is what is typically seen in these cars?

A billet aluminum chassis would impress anyone.

The exterior of the car is identical to what we make now. That was what made the engineering so difficult on this car. From 10 feet, an "expert" will not be able to tell the difference.

Now for my personal opinion. I have been fortunate enough to drive original 427 Cobras, original 289 Cobras, our latest car, and many other replicas. I won't comment on the other replicas (for obvious reasons) but when you get right down to it, I really don't like driving the original cars. The chassis flexes all over the place; the brakes are horrible, the motor is a ton of bricks in the front end (all of those comments can be applied to the 289 car as well, with the addition the leaf springs ride like a buggy.) Frankly, the only thing I really like about them is the incredible looks and the incredible acceleration.

I can tell within 100 feet of driving a car weather or not it has an aluminum or an iron 427 block. The 427 iron block ruins the car for me. Now, that is just my opinion and so there is no reason to start the flame throwers.

Other people (like Chuck) are certainly entitled to their opinion and that is why we make so many different cars. The world would be a very boring place if all we had to choose from was vanilla ice cream. Having spent considerable time in Poland (right after the wall fell) I can tell you I certainly didn't enjoy seeing empty shelves in the stores. The first time I brought Poles to the States and took them into an Albertsons they actually cried just looking at all the different flavors of Kool-Aid (of all things) that were available just sitting there on the shelf.

I digress,

Anyway, I'm just glad we have 31 Flavors here!

David

[xlr8or]

David,
I think it will really depend on the intended purpose of the car. If the billet chassis and push rod suspension have greatly improved handling, those that track the car would appreciate it more than those who's primary use is on the street.

Why not take that billet chassis and make something new? Something that has better aerodynamics than a brick. Cobra's have a visceral, vintage appeal why screw that up?

Scott

[Joe Wicked]

CG is center of gravity.

[jmarsey]

Good points being made here and there is more to it.

A pure design methodology would carry through the entire car, including the body, shape, wheel base, track, and all the bits, etc. In other words, why wrap a state of the art chassis with a period authentic 40+ year old wrapper? Why not carry your talented design sensibilities further to inform all aspects of the car?

On another note,
What most people misunderstand about the JBL is that it is not trying to be a cobra replica. It does resemble one but far from a replica. The car was designed all at once, meaning, Richard didn’t start with a cobra body and try to fit his ideology under it. The chassis was designed and a cobra styled body to fit it. Not everyone’s cup of tea but to me it’s a blend of styles and ideas that I can appreciate. But as I always tell folks, if I ever build a “cobra” it will be a Kirkham, period.

Incredible work David, as usual. I think your copper cobra was truly a pure expression of materials and methods. Quite beautiful too.

Talk soon, John :>

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by jmarsey

Good points being made here and there is more to it.

A pure design methodology would carry through the entire car, including the body, shape, wheel base, track, and all the bits, etc. In other words, why wrap a state of the art chassis with a period authentic 40+ year old wrapper? Why not carry your talented design sensibilities further to inform all aspects of the car?

Talk soon, John :>

John, my point exactly.

I like your JBL too.

[ENTDOC]

I actually do understand what a JBL is, but of course if it resembled anything other than a cobra you would not be on this site, so it is a cobra of sorts. But , that is also my point. A kirkham with billet frame and push rod suspension exceeds my personal definition of a cobra, at that point it is a car that resembles a cobra. That is not what most people buy a Kirkham for, it is what everone that buys a JBL wants.

[Cobra Pack]

3 inch leafspring frame with correct steel suspension pieces. 289 leafspring cars handle incredibly well -- especially if you use OEM spec springs.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by jmarsey

Good points being made here and there is more to it.

A pure design methodology would carry through the entire car, including the body, shape, wheel base, track, and all the bits, etc. In other words, why wrap a state of the art chassis with a period authentic 40+ year old wrapper? Why not carry your talented design sensibilities further to inform all aspects of the car?

Thank you for your kind words!

While I can't comment on the Skunkworks, the billet chassis is a preliminary exercise for another car. Let's just say, Thomas and my dream car--or the crowning jewel of our combined automotive talents, experience, and dreams. It has nothing to do with Cobras--and everything to do with what a modern car of today could and should be. One day I hope to see it drive down the road.

David

[Lew Ledyard]

"While I can't comment on the Skunkworks, the billet chassis is a preliminary exercise for another car."

You guys aren't going to be making a "better" version of the Shelby GLH are you?

[David Kirkham]

You'll have to waterboard me to talk!

David


or just let me help out at your wife's next show...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

CG is center of gravity.

Well, I would haven't gotten it if David had written "CoG".

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, I would haven't gotten it if David had written "CoG".

I have just seen it that way recently, so I knew. We just installed RF welders at work and the technical documents say CG. I had to ask myself, so I thought I would share, that is all.

[Hoofa]

Love the Billet, Bought Solidworks to design my own modern chassis. I think it should be wrapped in a modern wrapper, that still says "Cobra" but with better aerodynamics, ergonomics, and of course goes, stops and turns with the best of 'em. I went from a Harley to a Ducati, Both fun, loud, Vtwin motorcycles yet worlds apart. Thats the difference I want with my car.

[Igofastr]

David,

Original frame with original suspension.

If I'd have wanted a "modern" car, I'd have purchased one. I wanted a '60s era race car (a cobra), and Kirkham is as close to that as can be found.

Don't get me wrong, I think all the CNC work is neat, as are the technological upgrades. But to me, it makes no sense putting all of that in a dated body such as the cobra. If someone wants a modern racer, buy a Stohr DSR.

But hey, to each his own.

[double ugly]

Billet goes toward the "HOT ROD" aspect of a Cobra. There are purists and then there are the "most anything goes" attitudes. I like the original therefore no billet. (although I have your billet clutch fork).
John

[Anthony]

David , how many Willy's have you made?

I guess you could slip that billet frame underneath the Willy's as well?

[David Kirkham]

We only made 1 Willy's. Certainly the billet chassis could be placed under just about any car.

David

[David Kirkham]

I'll take my chances!

David