Jack Roush Crashes Plane in WI

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

One more thing. I've long been opposed to the military doing aerial flight demonstations at airshows. I've seen too many good pilots crash and die rather than suffer the embarrassment of abandoning a bad approach in front of an audience.

Sadly, my point was made again yesterday when a C-17 crashed in Alaska while practicing for an airshow. It appears that all four crew members died. What makes the tragedy even worse is that the generals who pick crews for airshow demos generally pick from among the best aviators in the unit.

[Tommy]

The accident report for the Roush crash has not yet been released, but a news story I read today took me back to something I said in my first post on this thread.

Originally Posted by Tommy

.... One more thing. I've long been opposed to the military doing aerial flight demonstations at airshows. I've seen too many good pilots crash and die rather than suffer the embarrassment of abandoning a bad approach in front of an audience.

News Story:
December 11, 2010
ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- A pilot's overly aggressive maneuvering and overconfidence were blamed in an investigative report on a C-17 plane crash at an Anchorage military base that killed all four airmen on board.

Besides pilot error, the crew on board was also faulted for failing to notice the dangerous situation that culminated with the plane stalling and crashing into some woods July 28 at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

"The mishap pilot violated regulatory provisions and multiple flight manual procedures, placing the aircraft outside established flight parameters at an attitude and altitude where recovery was not possible," the report's executive summary says.

Bob Hall, a base spokesman, said Friday evening he didn't know which of the three pilots was at the controls when the massive $184 million plane crashed during a training demonstration for an air show.

[JBCOBRA]

I ended up in the grass a few times..............lol

[Jerry Clayton]

There was a B737 that crashed at Midway airport several years ago----the pilot was a experienced competitor at the World aerobatic championships(or at least National)
Low ceilings, pretty heavy icing conditions---the aircraft got slow in front of him(IFR) on approach and ATC slowed down the 37--The B737 didn't have anti ice on the tail--with the ice build up it affected the stall speed of the a/c and it ended up stalling just short of touchdown and crashing---this was in control of one of the top level pilots in the nation---reluctance to go around.

[IndyCobra]

The only slack i would cut him is that the controllers often ask you to do maneuvers close to the ground on approach that you wouldn't normally do. Three years ago, a couple behind me in the approach to Airventure stall/spinned it into the ground on the approach apron because the controller asked them to keep it in close and make the turn to final over the end of the runway. Two killed just like that.

I wouldn't be surprised, especially since he was landing on 18, that he had to make a very close-in turn to final, overshot the centerline and steepened his bank angle, stalled and recovered but had lost too much energy and pancaked it in. I know he shouldn't have allowed himself to do it as he is ultimately the PIC, but......I can see how it happened. It happens every year up there.

[mln385]

I have seen a report (of many circulating) he was making an emergency landing. So everything right now is nothing more than speculation and assumptions.

Latest word I see is he may loose his sight in his left eye, if this happens I would think he wll not fly again with limited vision.

[timsullivan]

Jack needs to quit while he's ahead. Clearly he doesn't know how to fly planes. Build race cars, maybe. Fly planes, no way!!

[mln385]

Originally Posted by timsullivan

Jack needs to quit while he's ahead. Clearly he doesn't know how to fly planes. Build race cars, maybe. Fly planes, no way!!

Interesting remark since you can clearly see all the facts of the incident in question here on this board....

Do a search on the internet I am sure you could probably find some footage somewhere of Jack Roush flying his P51 Mustang. He is an experienced Pilot.

[vector1]

i wouldn't contest the good pilot, but he let himself get into a situation without an "out". prior to the incident he should have asked himself if he had a way to get out of the situation, go around or whatever. got himself into a corner and paid the price.

just another back seat driver.

[mln385]

All I am saying is people are making convictions before they even know the facts of the situation.

[bran3b]

I am not a pilot and have absolutely no training to be one but I did hear a clip of the radio conversation leading up to the landing it sounds like someone else may have put him in a position without an out. The conversation sounded to me like there was another plane in a pattern that conflicted with Roush's. he even asked the controller to confirm that there would not be a problem with the two aircraft and then he expressed some concern. I am almost certainly missing something, I usually am, but it seems like there is more to this story.

[Jerry Clayton]

If the engines are running and both wings are on the a/c, there is an out to any situation

[Excaliber]

It may be the best "out" in this situation was a controlled crash landing. I've heard it said any landing you can walk away from is a good one.

Sometimes race car drivers are faced with a bad "out" as well. Hit the wall, hit another car for less damage all around, run off the track and risk a roll over? Split second decisions are easy to second guess once the smoke has cleared.

[rustyBob]

ride the bus....Jack
public transportation isnt that bad.

[Jim Werth]

Last I heard was he was transfered to Mayo clinic in Minnesota I'm at EAA all week. Jim

[Jerry Clayton]

Ernie---the differance between racing a car and flying a plane---in a car you can't change the altitude your operating at---you can only steer right, go straight,turn left---spin, yes, but that is only a way of slowing down/stopping---

Flying---you can't slow down or you will stop flying---you can change altitude by a few feet to a huge amount---

About the radio tapes-----as a pilot, you must fly the plane---as a controller-they have never ever crashed a desk----you cannot let a controller control your a/c, they only issue clearances

And with that -----this accident could of happened to thousands of pilots in the same situation if they had let the contrllers fly the planes from there desk---not just Jack

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Ernie---the differance between racing a car and flying a plane
in a car you can't change the altitude your operating at---you can only steer right, go straight,turn left---spin, yes, but that is only a way of slowing down/stopping---

Flying---you can't slow down or you will stop flying---you can change altitude by a few feet to a huge amount---

About the radio tapes-----as a pilot, you must fly the plane---as a controller-they have never ever crashed a desk----you cannot let a controller control your a/c, they only issue clearances

And with that -----this accident could of happened to thousands of pilots in the same situation if they had let the contrllers fly the planes from there desk---not just Jack

Tell Carl and Brad that and I'll bet they will disagree.

[Don]

Quotes from the article:

" Roush's accident occurred upon landing at Wittman Regional Airport during the annual AirVenture show, which draws thousands of spectators and leads to heavy air traffic flying in and out of Oshkosh. Roush was flying his Beechcraft Premier 1A -- his "flying around airplane," he said -- when he had "a conflict in airspace with another airplane" after he had been cleared to land. "I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying," added Roush, who also filed a report with the National Transportation Safety Board on Friday. :

" Friend and former Roush driver Mark Martin, himself a pilot, could relate. "

" "I don't want to get into that much, but when there's an air show ... they've got aircraft that are landing just nose-to-tail, and they might be landing on other runways, on taxiways, all this stuff simultaneously. It's not something you deal with under normal circumstances. Under normal circumstances, they're way spread apart and all of that stuff," said Martin, familiar with the scenario from flying into the annual Sun n' Fun show in Lakeland, Fla.

"Jack got in a situation where he thought, 'How am I going to get out of this without hitting somebody?' Because of all the things that were going on, which is exactly what I thought would happen, because, you know, he's in a jet and there are some very small aircraft at different speeds and those kinds of things, and he just got in a situation where he was uncertain about how he was going to make it all work, got slow and tried to get slowed down and got a little too slow and whatever. It was one of those situations where it was a bad deal." "


http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/head...ash/index.html

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Don

Roush: "I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying,"

In my experience, a 20% chance of hitting another airplane is usually preferable to a 100% chance is hitting the ground. Those words sound to me like an intelligent pilot trying to softsell why he made a bad decision to continue a bad approach.

[Excaliber]

Good points Jerry. What I was "driving" at is that a guy who has an incident flying/landing should not be automatically written off as a bad pilot. He may have gained valuable experience as a result and be an even better than average pilot afterward. Then again, looking at McCains military service flight record, you have to wonder why they allow some folks to keep flying...

Now, maybe McCain was just unlucky, more than a few times, whatever, you gotta wonder why they didn't pull his license "just because" if for no other reason!