Do you think this 302 is 400hp

[snowgoer]

I am looking at buying a Backdraft with a 302 in it that supposely has 400hp. The motor was built by Rolling Thunder Race and Engineering from Boca Raton, Florida in 2004. The owner faxed me a spec sheet from them and below is what it has listed on it. I was wondering if 400 hp is close based on these specs. Any other thoughts on this set up???

ARP oil pump shaft
Melling HV oil pump
Weisco Pro-true forged pistons
molly file fit rings
Clevette 77 rod and main bearings
302 performance i-beam rods
tricFlow Stage 2 cam
ARP cam bolt
Ford racing hydraulic roller lifters
Ford racing lifter hold down kit
Cloyes double ro;;er timing chain
Romac harmonic balancer
Ford Racing flywheel
Edelbrock RPM heads assembled
Hardened 80 wall push rods
1.6 extruded aluminum roller rockers
Polished air gap intake
MSD billet distributor
MSD blaster II coil and bracket
Demon 650 HP carburetor
Ford Racing 302 block
R&R pistons to rods

[Gaz64]

I'd say it could be 400hp, it has a few good bits in there.
How about some timing figures for the camshaft and the compression ratio?
This will tell more of the engines' breathing ability.


"Stage 2" camshaft means nothing.

[snowgoer]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

I'd say it could be 400hp, it has a few good bits in there.
How about some timing figures for the camshaft and the compression ratio?
This will tell more of the engines' breathing ability.


"Stage 2" camshaft means nothing.

Unfortunetly I do not have that info. Trying to get more but flying down to GA to check it out on Tuesday. Thanks, Scott

[Excaliber]

A lot of those specs are "supporting" players and have little to do with horse power potential, but a lot to do with longevity and quality. A good spark system is assumed to light it all up.

Focus on the "breathing" aspects to determine ball park horse power numbers. It doesn't make much difference what rods or timing chain or oil pump, flywheel, bolts, balancer, clutch, etc. etc. etc.

For a basic horse power guesstimate:
It's about the cam, heads, intake, piston design. Piston quench and c.r. for instance, forged or hyper doesn't make much difference here. Valve train, induction (FI, carb, size) and exhaust are the big players to try to nail down specs on.

[vector1]

or how much air can you run through it at what compression ratio..

[blykins]

Not with Edelbrock RPM heads....

The only parts that play a role in how much power you make are the bore/stroke, heads, cam, intake, and compression ratio. The compression ratio on this one wouldn't make any difference unless it was a difference from 9:1 to 14:1....

I would guess that it's closer to 340-350 hp at the most. It takes a very nice head and cam package to get 1.3-1.4 hp/ci out of a 302.

[Excaliber]

Brent would you clarify your comment on the Ebrock RPM heads? Do you mean they will flow enough air where they are not a major factor in this case (horse power), OR are they the primary limiting factor given the other specs or what???

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Brent would you clarify your comment on the Ebrock RPM heads? Do you mean they will flow enough air where they are not a major factor in this case (horse power), OR are they the primary limiting factor given the other specs or what???

Ernie:
These are the "basic" Eldelbrock heads, good, but not great out of the box..........with some serouis work they can be made to flow well, but then you could have spent the same money on a better set of heads to start with..........

Some refer to these heads as "entry level" aluminum heads........
There are iron heads out there that will do better!!!!!!!!

I'm guessing from 300 to 350hp tops depending on camshaft/compression and a few other things...........not bad for a 302 should be a nice dependable engine.........

David

[joyridin']

I agree on the Edelbrock heads. Some old Summit catalogues used to have a kit to get to 350hp on a SBF. To get that high of HP, it took some pretty trick heads and cam set-up.

[blykins]

They would be a limiting factor. They don't flow anything like an AFR head, a TW head, etc. You need heads, cam, and rpms to make power with a small displacement.

[madmaxx]

I had a 302 with eddlebrock performer heads and air gap manifold, holley 650 and it made 375hp at flywheel, 309 at rearwheels. The key was the 3.92 rear end ratio, it was as quick as any cobra zero to 60 if you could get out of 1st without hitting the rev-limiter. Starting running out of steam about 90 mph.

I do not know the cam specs. Depending on the condition of the car you are looking at if you can get it in the low 30's you cant go wrong.

On the flip side if you want more hp, and you will eventually, wait and buy one with more displacement like a 351 or even a 351 stroked.

[Excaliber]

Ah, I see what you mean. My guess for the BEST horse power (absolute) would be something like the TW heads. For best overall street application perhaps the AFR heads.

Perhaps the Ebrock heads, with some work, would support 400 horse on a 302?

Max, I had a bone stock 302 (220-225 horse) with a 3.50 rear gear and the ultra low 1st gear ratio of a T5. The car was a lot of fun, up to about 90 mph, when it would lay down and die. But it WAS a real tire smoker, given the gear ratio's, and "quick enough" around town and out and about. OK,,, eventually it wasn't near enough ponies, just sayin', even limited power in a Cobra is still a lot of fun.

[Wbulk]

The Trick Flow cams available for that engine seem to be:
duration @.050
221-225
224-232
236-248
I am guessing it must be the 224-232, 2500-6000 rpms. If that is the cam then the limiting factor would be the heads as Brent said. I am thinking that engine could put out about 330 hp, give or take 20 hp. If this is for a street car that would not be a bad engine. In fact if it was mine I would have preferred the 221-225 cam with those heads for street use, but we don't know what rear axle gears are in the car.

[snowgoer]

Do I have a lot to learn but looking forward to it. The BDR I am looking at only has 1,700 miles with this 302. It looks great in the pictures and sounds like it has very little use, so I am flying to see it tomorrow. I have my mind set on a BDR or Superformance, although Superformance are a little out of my price range. Looking to stay in low to mid 30s. The reason I want a BDR or SPF is I do not know a good build from a bad build so I am more comfortable with a factory built like the 2 brands mentioned.

Thanks for all of the info and hopefully I will have one shortly. Scott

[FIA Mike]

Snowgoer,

In my ERA FIA car I had an engine that is very similar to yours. It developed 355Hp at the flywheel. Would need to know your compression ratio and cam lift/duration to get a better idea.

FIA Mike

[snowgoer]

Originally Posted by FIA Mike

Snowgoer,

In my ERA FIA car I had an engine that is very similar to yours. It developed 355Hp at the flywheel. Would need to know your compression ratio and cam lift/duration to get a better idea.

FIA Mike

I am going to try and get that info but not sure if the owner knows that. If I get it I will post here. Thanks for everyones help. Scott

[Dwight]

would you be interested in a Keith Craft 428 stroker making 600 hp for $37,000??

I don't know where you live but you can drive this one home.

Dwight

[Rickd]

400 HP seems a little optimistic with Edelbrock rpm heads and a 302. The trick flow stage II is a nice moderate lift cam, with a little more lift and duration than the stage I. Keith Craft uses the Stage II in a lot of their small blocks. I have a KC 331 stroker, afr 160 heads, and a Stage II cam - dyno'd 446 HP at 6000 rpm and put down 326 to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno tuner. I would guess that the 302 with Edel rpm heads would be around 350? I had a 302 with a cam similar to the stage II and Trick Flow heads that put out around 365. Funny thing - my stock 302 with a smaller cam and E7TE heads had more lower end torque and was quicker on a road racing course - with 65 less hp. Sounded nicer - nice rumble with the cam - but the lower end torque was a lot more fun to drive.