TTO: a force to be reckoned with.

[Barnsnake]

Interesting question, but not a simple one.
In the example, we were at the limits of adhesion and assuming somewhat neutral handling. Using the same parameters, with additional rearward weight bias from your "ballast" you would rotate off the road even faster due to a greater pendulum effect.
However:
Adding ballast to the rear would change the overall handling characteristics of the car. If you added enough grip to the rear (relative to the front) it might just try to understeer straight off the road long before you neared the limits of adhesion of the rear. Lifting off the throttle or braking in an attempt to arrest the understeer might result in snap-oversteer and again, backing off the road.

Weight (MASS, actually) is ALWAYS the enemy when trying to accelerate, stop, or turn. Increasing rear grip by increasing the coefficient of friction (big, sticky tires) is better than by increasing the force normal to the plane (ballast).

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Barnsnake

Interesting question, but not a simple one.
In the example, we were at the limits of adhesion and assuming somewhat neutral handling. Using the same parameters, with additional rearward weight bias from your "ballast" you would rotate off the road even faster due to a greater pendulum effect.
However:
Adding ballast to the rear would change the overall handling characteristics of the car. If you added enough grip to the rear (relative to the front) it might just try to understeer straight off the road long before you neared the limits of adhesion of the rear. Lifting off the throttle or braking in an attempt to arrest the understeer might result in snap-oversteer and again, backing off the road.

Weight (MASS, actually) is ALWAYS the enemy when trying to accelerate, stop, or turn. Increasing rear grip by increasing the coefficient of friction (big, sticky tires) is better than by increasing the force normal to the plane (ballast).

Jim, so does this mean big sticky tires plus added weight in the trunk would help improve the traction thus decreasing the likelyhood of TTO?

John, AKA, tin-man

[tin-man]

[quote=Barnsnake;1120496]
Lifting off the throttle or braking in an attempt to arrest the understeer might result in snap-oversteer and again, backing off the road.

so what happens when y'all gotta make an emergency stop, does all hell breaks loose?

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[Tom Wells]

tin-man,

Not me, although I know that person. My TTO was turn 3 at Summit Point in 2003.

As to braking, same rule as for acceleration applies: get all four tires pointed in the same direction!

WardL,

The Michelins I refer to are quite predictable: their loss of adhesion is sudden. There are other tires that give some warning through a more gradual loss of adhesion. Do some searches and you should find lots of alternatives.

Tom

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

tin-man,

Not me, although I know that person. My TTO was turn 3 at Summit Point in 2003.

As to braking, same rule as for acceleration applies: get all four tires pointed in the same direction!

Tom

Tom, as I go over this movie again and again I can't hep but realize this guy may have lost his life given the way the car finally wound up. Can you help us all and let us know, did he survive and if so, did he ever recount the cause of the spin out and flip?


Please play this over several times and then form your final opinions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYRN70r7Zrc

John, AKA, tin-man