TTO: a force to be reckoned with.

[patrickt]

John, what is the status of your car? Last I remember there was a problem with the trans spacer and starter motor, but that seems like ages ago. Is delivery scheduled?

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by patrickt

John, what is the status of your car? Last I remember there was a problem with the trans spacer and starter motor, but that seems like ages ago. Is delivery scheduled?

Eventually got the parts for the tranny, but the power steering motor had a fitment issue with the side of the body and the body had to be modified[cut]to allow the motor to fit. Then there was an issue with the steering mechnism that needed some part of the frame modified, [cut]. While I have been worried about the body and frame modifications I have been assured there is no affect on the structural integrity of the body or frame.

Unfortunately, there is now some issue with the tranny linkage that needs sorting out but other than that is should be ready I am guessing some time in June. I have asked for a list of what else has to be done and that is forthcoming. Not sure if this is beacuse I am in China, but it sure is taking a long time.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by tin-man

Eventually got the parts for the tranny, but the power steering motor had a fitment issue with the side of the body and the body had to be modified[cut]to allow the motor to fit. Then there was an issue with the steering mechnism that needed some part of the frame modified, [cut]. While I have been worried about the body and frame modifications I have been assured there is no affect on the structural integrity of the body or frame.

Unfortunately, there is now some issue with the tranny linkage that needs sorting out but other than that is should be ready I am guessing some time in June. I have asked for a list of what else has to be done and that is forthcoming. Not sure if this is beacuse I am in China, but it sure is taking a long time.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

Hi John. A couple of questions or comments....
1. Looking at your engine description - Roush 511IR with 572HP - I suspect you may be able to comment significantly on my 'How much power is enough' question when yours is on the road....
2. Is your auto to be setup conventionally with throttle actuated kickdown? Even with quite low powered cars, a mid corner change down that might not have been fully expected can easily unsettle the rear end (of the car). And then you're at high speed in reverse. Or getting giddy.
3. Are you really in China?

Cheers,
Glen

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Hi John. A couple of questions or comments....
1. Looking at your engine description - Roush 511IR with 572HP - I suspect you may be able to comment significantly on my 'How much power is enough' question when yours is on the road....
2. Is your auto to be setup conventionally with throttle actuated kickdown? Even with quite low powered cars, a mid corner change down that might not have been fully expected can easily unsettle the rear end (of the car). And then you're at high speed in reverse. Or getting giddy.
3. Are you really in China?

Cheers,
Glen

Glen, been here for over twenty years building and ramping up factories for whoever wants to have a footprint here.

I will certainly comment on the power factor when I finally get my car and will find out if the auto transmission does or does not do an autodownshift.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[Tom Wells]

Auto trans on the track?

Been doing it for nine years, everywhere from Roebling Road to Sebring and many others.

First, please take note that my TTO crash in 2003 was certainly not due to a downshift by adding more power LOL

Second, the reason I do it is I'm too linear for shifting and heel and toe clutch management.

I can remember left foot is STOP and right foot is GO. Add shifting, throttle blipping and clutch actuation and I'd never learn to go around the track at all!

There were a few gotchas.

There needs to be a big enough trans cooler.

The torque converter needs to have a low enough stall speed and permit enough oil circulation to avoid heat excess heat generation.

The trans needs to be modified to produce crisp shifting to minimize heat generation and also to make sure there's enough oil flow to take advantage of the cooler.

After getting that right, the car can be run as hard as possible for thirty minute sessions at Sebring without any overheating problems with the trans.

The absence of shifting has a huge advantage for me: I can concentrate on the correct racing line, where to brake and accelerate and yes(!) even passing.

It was a long learning curve with the hardware because I could not find precedent and had to work out each item myself. It took four transmissions, three torque converters and a lot of hard nosed negotiation with vendors before it came together.

There is very little experience available in road racing as most cars have engines that may be a bit small for the job. There is some added hp loss compared with a stick shift; the big block doesn't seem to mind.

The most similar usage I've found is -GASP- mud trucks! They have large engines and often get used for a full tank of gas playing on the back 40 between trips to the race track. Anyone who builds a converter for mud trucks can probably build a successful version for road racing.

The biggest problem to date has been separating experience from opinion.

(note to self: this separation can be problematic for all kinds of other car-related technical questions and even non-car related questions)

Most folks who have never done this have opinions that are incorrect. Even pros.

Case in point: I went to a recognized torque converter maker and asked for a very low stall speed converter, say about 1600 rpm lockup. The maker then proceeded to talk me out of it by opining (note: opinion, not experience, at the name brand professional level, sigh) that he could make a looser, low heat converter for me. It didn't work. Boiling trans fluid after ten minutes is a no-fun experience...

The mud truck guy nailed it on the first try.

In all, I find the auto trans car much easier and more pleasant to drive both at the track and on the street. Finally. Just put it in Drive and go do stuff! YMMV

Tom

[Voyager]

My 2 cents…

Start w/ practicing oversteer (both throttle induced & TTO) in a less powerful, less expensive car.

Not exactly the same, but gives you the right flavor.

I have a highly modified Miata and it’s fairly simple to induce push, power oversteer, TTO and 4 wheel drift. Practice in a wet, deserted parking lot.

On the road, if you find yourself entering a corner too fast, don’t panic lift approaching the apex, and definitely don’t hit the brakes. Pretend you are on ice, ease off some and cut as wide a turn out as you can. Be prepared to modulate the throttle back on to push the rear end down and get a bite.

Why practice with another car? I thought I was a pretty good driver until the first time I floored the Cobra. I got power oversteer, followed by TTO…all within 3-5 seconds. If I had been on a public rode, it would have been ugly.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Voyager

My 2 cents…

Why practice with another car? I thought I was a pretty good driver until the first time I floored the Cobra. I got power oversteer, followed by TTO…all within 3-5 seconds. If I had been on a public rode, it would have been ugly.

so does this mean you were not even entering a curve just flooring the car, presumably in a straight line in a controlled area and you still got power oversteer and a TTO spinout? Jeez what type of force did you apply to the foot pedal, was it all the way to the floorboards or just a continuous graduated pressure. I would think your tires would have spun immediately and given you a heads up that something was about to happen? Not having the car yet I have not experienced endeavouring to plant the foot pedal on the floor and I am not too sure I want to try that after reading your experience. Can you elaborate some more, this is fascinating for me and I am really thankful for you bringing up this point. Did you have an auto tranny?

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

In all, I find the auto trans car much easier and more pleasant to drive both at the track and on the street. Finally. Just put it in Drive and go do stuff! YMMV

Tom

This is great stuff and is very helpful and is now assimilated. BTW what's YMMV, I am not too good at acronyms?

Cheers, John,AKA, tin-man

[Voyager]

John,

Yeah. I came across a brand new building complex being built in the forest, outside of town. Halfway completed, absolutely deserted. I figured the huge parking lot behind the complex was the best opportunity to open up my Cobra for the first time and see what Keith Craft had built me.

From a 25 mph roll in 2nd…pointing dead ahead…floored it, After a couple seconds of sound and fury, I was at the other end of the lot. Could smell smoke, but didn’t really see any. Slowly looped around & tried it again. Same deal…was thinking this isn’t so bad. Figured I’d give it one last shot before moving on. This time a gassed it a tad too soon (wasn’t exactly pointing straight). I got a second of sound & fury, and then felt the back end powering by. Immediately lifted and turned into the slide, but the rear end didn’t seem too interested in staying put. Even after lifting, the back end kept sliding (hoping?) as I exited the parking lot sideways and looped around in the dirt.

Other than some dust in the car, nothing damaged but my ego. I did learn my lesson.

It really does say “respect me or I will kill you”.

Bob

YMMV = your mileage may vary (aka. You may get different results than me)