Water Wetter effectiveness?

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by jwd

If you are running pure water, adding Water Wetter it will help. If you are running a water/anti-freeze mixture, it's a waste of money because anti-freeze already has a surfactant (reduces surface tension) in it.

I agree.

I wish I had better results to report, but not so.

I was running up to 230* in Houston's stop 'n' go traffic, using my SPAL puller fan, with 50/50 glycol/water mix

I purchased the Water Wetter at an auto supply store and read the instructions. It was recommended that the best results would be achieved with less than 50/50 mix (recommended was 15% glycol/85% water), so I drained the radiator and replaced it with a glycol/water mixture in the 15/85% range (I figured that with the mixture still in the engine I would end up around 20/80, since it was still 50/50).

No improvement...still running at 230* during the afternoon on the hot Houston freeways in stop 'n' go traffic WITH the SPAL fan on, once at highway speeds it runs between 195* and 210* with the puller fan OFF...no better than with 50/50 glycol/water.

My fan is shrouded on the top only, the next job will be to make side shrouds. That will happen when it is put up for the winter.

BTW, my radiator is a HUGE aluminum Griffin unit, reported to be able to cool up to 600 horsepower, and my engine is a box-stock 5.0HO out of a 1989 Mustang GT, just converted to carb (includes Edelbrock Performer manifold...not the Performer RPM, Edelbrock Thunder carb, and standard 4 into 1 headers/sidepipes), NOT a high performance unit with a lot of go-fast goodies.

Cheers!

Dugly

[Shelby Cobra]

I vintage road race a Corvette and thats what we all run in our race cars - distilled water and Water Wetter. No antifreeze/coolant allowed in the cars in case of a spill on the track. It does work.

[mdross1]

When first started running the 460 in our car was really concerned how fast the temps rose to 190f in stop and go traffic,when it got over 200 a few times tried a can of WW in 50/50 mix and saw no results.My solution was to close all gaps around rad with aluminum at first was anal about watching temp gauge.Now know it is normal for this setup to work the way it does.

[trularin]

We just had a rework of the cooling system as the fan would not turn on by itself as designed. Found the fan had aged and took near 40 amps to turn it.

To replace the fan, the radiator was pulled. Hence we needed to redue the collant. Used to run over 200 degree ( 205 - 208 ).

As it turned out, we run about 200 degrees in the 96 degree heat with 50/50 and 1 bottle of WW.

That is good for a stop light.

So it works for us.

Just weighing in.

[Tom Wells]

Things to check: thermostat & cap, fan turning in the correct direction, standard pulley sizes (no undersized crank pulley/oversized waterpump pulley) and on a small block, water pump rotation in the correct direction.

If these are OK, nearly always overheating at a stop indicates an air bubble.

Most Cobra owners go into denial about this.

It is the cause in a large number of these cases....

Your radiator sounds big enough.

Just sayin,

Tom

[Luce]

Another thing for you guys with idle speed cooling issues to consider is idle timing. If you have a vacuum advance and it's hooked up as ported and idles at 8-14 deg advance or so, you're burning a lot of extra fuel to keep your catalytic converter up to temp (which you should not have in the first place).

On the 1978 Chrysler 360, there's a thermostatic vacuum switch (I'm sure many other cars have one as well, but this is one I read all of the emissions chapter on)in the intake manifold's water passage that can switch your vacuum from ported to manifold at somewhere near 200 deg. If you can't be convinced by the recent vacuum advance thread to run your vacuum advance on the manifold, add this little emission device, and when you're about to overheat, it'll give you a few more degrees, upping the idle speed 300 rpm and running cooler.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Things to check: thermostat & cap, fan turning in the correct direction, standard pulley sizes (no undersized crank pulley/oversized waterpump pulley) and on a small block, water pump rotation in the correct direction.

If these are OK, nearly always overheating at a stop indicates an air bubble.

Most Cobra owners go into denial about this.

It is the cause in a large number of these cases....

Your radiator sounds big enough.

Just sayin,

Tom

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. Here is what I did when I changed out the coolant...once I had the radiator as full as possible I capped the place into which I fill the radiator. It is clearly the highest point in the cooling system, standing well above the area where the thermostat is located. I ran the car up to temperature (felt the top hose to make sure hot coolant was making its way past the thermostat), then filled the system. I did this at least 3 times and got it to the point that there was no more room for coolant every time I would check it.

Then I jacked the front end up enough to set the tires on some ramps I have and proceeded to repeat the process described above. Only once would any coolant fit into the cooling sytem, after that the coolant level was consistently at the location where the radiator cap seals against the fitting (my Griffin radiator does not have the cap on the radiator)

Should I be doing anything else to make sure there are no bubbles in the cooling system?

Thanks...not in denial here, just looking for answers. Today I had the Cobra out about town and at one point the temp gauge read 210*. The ambient temp was about 95*, sure wish I had an infrared thermometer to measure the temperature of the asphalt!

I am pretty firmly convinced that adding shrouds to the side of the radiator will help, will start working on cardboard templates so I am ready when the car is put up for the winter.

Cheers!

Doug

[CowtownCobra]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

Today I had the Cobra out about town and at one point the temp gauge read 210*. The ambient temp was about 95*

I thought you said it ran hot? In my book HOT does not begin for another 20-30 degrees.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by CowtownCobra

I thought you said it ran hot? In my book HOT does not begin for another 20-30 degrees.

It is quite common for the temperature to reach 230* during the long, slow stop 'n' go freeway traffic in Houston...at times it can take 45 minutes to crawl only one mile. When that happens, I try to get to the "inside" lane so that if I blow a radiator hose I can get off the freeway, but then that initiates a "Safe-tow" process where the city will come and tow my car to a place off the freeway...for a huge fee, of course.

I agree...I do not worry about 210*...

Cheers!

Doug

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I agree.

I wish I had better results to report, but not so.

I was running up to 230* in Houston's stop 'n' go traffic, using my SPAL puller fan, with 50/50 glycol/water mix

I purchased the Water Wetter at an auto supply store and read the instructions. It was recommended that the best results would be achieved with less than 50/50 mix (recommended was 15% glycol/85% water), so I drained the radiator and replaced it with a glycol/water mixture in the 15/85% range (I figured that with the mixture still in the engine I would end up around 20/80, since it was still 50/50).

No improvement...still running at 230* during the afternoon on the hot Houston freeways in stop 'n' go traffic WITH the SPAL fan on, once at highway speeds it runs between 195* and 210* with the puller fan OFF...no better than with 50/50 glycol/water.

My fan is shrouded on the top only, the next job will be to make side shrouds. That will happen when it is put up for the winter.

BTW, my radiator is a HUGE aluminum Griffin unit, reported to be able to cool up to 600 horsepower, and my engine is a box-stock 5.0HO out of a 1989 Mustang GT, just converted to carb (includes Edelbrock Performer manifold...not the Performer RPM, Edelbrock Thunder carb, and standard 4 into 1 headers/sidepipes), NOT a high performance unit with a lot of go-fast goodies.

Cheers!

Dugly

Seems to me that all this means is that you have some other issue going on...probably the shrouding as you say. too many other examples of it working, and it does best only with water. As noted...you can sneak by with it on the track, but you can't use anti-freeze/coolant.

Box stock 5.0? What thermostat? I run a 180 and I run the fan when it gets to about 75-80C...easier to keep something cool when it's already cool.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Shelby Cobra

I vintage road race a Corvette and thats what we all run in our race cars - distilled water and Water Wetter. No antifreeze/coolant allowed in the cars in case of a spill on the track. It does work.

I think the issue is antifreeze. The Water Wetter packaging says it will work best without any antifreeze, but also says a street engine should run at least 15% glycol in the coolant. If I had an aluminum block/heads/water pump I would run straight water with the Water Wetter, but rust would be an issue for my iron block/heads/water pump.

I know there are radiator additives out there that will control rust...perhaps that is the answer for a street car, straight water, an anti-rust additive, and Water Wetter?

Originally Posted by Jamo

Seems to me that all this means is that you have some other issue going on...probably the shrouding as you say. too many other examples of it working, and it does best only with water. As noted...you can sneak by with it on the track, but you can't use anti-freeze/coolant.

Box stock 5.0? What thermostat? I run a 180 and I run the fan when it gets to about 75-80C...easier to keep something cool when it's already cool.

I've never pulled the thermostat, Jamo...that's next on the list. I suspect it is an 185* unit, as on cool days the coolant temperature never exceeds 185* once the engine is warmed up. Driving in this hot, humid environment, with all the stop 'n' go traffic on the hot multi-lane freeways, HAS to be hard on a cooling system. I notice that once I am up to road speed, not running the fan, that I have to be careful about how closely I follow the vehicle in front of me, and particularly if that vehicle is large and blocks the free airflow into the fishmouth/radiator opening. Once I see the temp hit 200* I switch the fan on, but without the fan I have seen the engine run at 210*-220* on the highway at freeway speeds, even without a large vehicle in front disturbing the airflow into the radiator.

I worry about being stranded with a burst radiator hose once the temp gauge hits 230*....

The shrouding is number one on the list for upgrades during the winter storage season!!!

Cheers! Great discussion about a topic I had planned on posting anyway

Dugly

[jhv48]

If you converted a FI engine to a carbed engine, did you also change the thermostat? FI engines usually run a 190 degree thermostat. Carbed engines normally run 180 degree thermostats. Set the fan to come on at 200 degrees. That could account for some of the higher temps. Verify your timing is spot on while you're at it also.

Install a 180 degree thermostat and fully shroud the radiator and check the timing That engine should run 180 degrees at freeway speeds in 100 degree weather all day long. Forget the water wetter for now. There is something else going on here. Something is definitely not performing up to par.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by jhv48

If you converted a FI engine to a carbed engine, did you also change the thermostat? FI engines usually run a 190 degree thermostat. Carbed engines normally run 180 degree thermostats. Set the fan to come on at 200 degrees. That could account for some of the higher temps. Verify your timing is spot on while you're at it also.

Install a 180 degree thermostat and fully shroud the radiator and check the timing That engine should run 180 degrees at freeway speeds in 100 degree weather all day long. Forget the water wetter for now. There is something else going on here. Something is definitely not performing up to par.

Thank you for the info...here is what little I can tell you, as the car came with a verbal history and little in the way of written build/repair/upgrade documentation.

I bought the car as-is and have no idea if the party who did the EFI/carb conversion changed out the thermostat, so I really have no idea about the thermostat rating. I have spent almost all of my worktime rebushing the parallel 4-bar rear suspension and the two front suspension bars. Likewise, I have not checked the timing, although I do have a good timing light and will do that this week. I did wonder if my timing might be too far advanced when I had a battery suddenly quit spinning the engine, but after posting a thread here on CC the vast majority of responders felt it was just a 4 year old battery that had run out of lifespan. I do have a very small battery in the car now (375CCA) and it starts better than it ever has.

The fan is operated manually by a toggle switch on the dash, not automatically switched by a temperature sensor. I do keep a keen eye on the temperature gauge and when the needle hits 200* I switch it on. I can start the car cold on a warm day and it will be up to 180* within 8-10 minutes. If I continue to let it idle the coolant temperature will continue to increase until I turn the fan on manually, then it cools down to around 185* and stays there until I get it out of the driveway. After that the temperature rise depends on how and where I drive it. The biggest problem is when I get into the center part of Houston where there are long periods of stop and go driving on the freeways...even with the fan on it gets close to 230* during those 45 minute stretches of stop and go traffic on a hot day.

I will do as you suggest, make sure I put a new 180* thermostat in and check the timing. Unless I can figure out how to do it easily right now, though, the shrouding will need to wait until I put in into the garage for winter storage.

I have reason to believe this vehicle started its life as a drag racing car and was converted to street trim in order to sell it...just too much in the way of race stuff on it...a welded thick-gauge aluminum fuel cell with foam blocks in it, Mallory fuel management (fuel pump/fuel filter) as well as Mallory Hy-Fire ignition components, the way the bumper hoops mount look like they were originally for push bars, that sort of thing. I was told that the huge Griffin radiator was installed while it was in its current "street trim" condition to address an overheating issue. The car is very minimalistic in orientation, no convenience items like power brakes/steering, heater, just a drivetrain and an alternator. Perhaps temperature management was not an issue if it was originally purpose built for only driving 1/4 mile at a time.

Thank you for the advice...as I said, I shall change out the thermostat and check the timing and see if the that makes a noticable difference (will check the opening temperature on the thermostat before I install it, too).

Cheers!!

Dugly

[roadrod2000]

NAJA289, look me up during the Monteray weekend, I'll be at the Seascape, looks like we have the same ride. I put in a custom made radiator from Ron Davis, no cooling issues what so ever.