Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.
Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote. I have built my fair share of SBF motors. Good engines. Never had an issue with any of them, but now I am a bit disappointed with the thought of going that route, versus an FE.
The Coyote would fit my needs, but I cannot bring myself to raise the hood/bonnet and not want to cringe as I see what is under it. It just does not feel right, no matter how logically correct it may be, it simply looks and feels wrong. I do not think I can shake how I feel about it. This may be a kit, but it still is a car which harkens back to a time where engines were loud and nasty. It is a Cobra. It was never a nice car. It has always been loud, mean, and nasty. I have a nice car in our Lexus. I want a Cobra.
Which brings me back to the SBF. Sigh. I really should not be disappointed. The SBF is a good motor and makes respectable power. Solid aftermarket support now, and all that rot. Still....to have a brand spanking new cast iron FE....damn.
__________________
Sometimes things really do go as planned.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuzzy
Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.
Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote....
You are not stuck. The solution is a quality, tested, 428 block with the extra webbing for the crank. They are getting harder to find, but they're still there, and it will suit your needs -- guaranteed. Just tell blykins or keith or barry that's what you want, and they'll find it for you. Maybe not day after tomorrow, but they'll find it.
You are not stuck. The solution is a quality, tested, 428 block with the extra webbing for the crank. They are getting harder to find, but they're still there, and it will suit your needs -- guaranteed. Just tell blykins or keith or barry that's what you want, and they'll find it for you. Maybe not day after tomorrow, but they'll find it.
I really had the itch for the 427 (I like that bore and stroke combination). I know I can find used 428 blocks. Just had my heart set on a 427. I prefer not to deal with used blocks for this build.
Seasoned is good, but "used" is not in the stars for this build.
I'll freely admin the reasons driving this are purely emotional. Nothing logical about it. I will definitely have a blykins/keith/barry type involved in this one.
__________________
Sometimes things really do go as planned.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
Not Ranked
Well, alright. But the bore on my build is only .07" less than that of an original sideoiler (and we could have gone further, but I wanted one "freshen up" left in). I went with the longer stroke of 4.125, but not the longest stroke of 4.25 , just for the "quick revving" aspect that made the original sideoilers so much fun. I have driven cars with original sideoilers in them and, between my build and an original SO, you would not be able to tell the difference. And, unless you have mirrors on the tips of your shoes, you can not tell if a SO is in a Cobra or not. But, the choice is yours. Personally, I would much rather have a seasoned iron block, that has been thoroughly measured and tested, than I would a new iron block. No two ways about it.
Personally, I would much rather have a seasoned iron block, that has been thoroughly measured and tested, than I would a new iron block. No two ways about it.
And I would be the polar opposite, assuming you can find a new or used Genesis iron block. I believe most of Barry R's Engine Masters FE builds have used the Genesis iron block. Though it sounds like they're unavailable at this time.
When I first started looking for a nice used FE block, all I saw was junk, near junk and repaired junk. Blech.
As for the Coyote engine in your Cobra (or a 428 for that matter), if you're trying to replicate this experience:
Cobra Make, Engine: Don't think I'll be getting a Cobra for a long time... Do have '94 RX-7 R2.
Posts: 2,333
Not Ranked
Doesn't Pond sell a cast iron block as well as an aluminum block?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuzzy
Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.
Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote. I have built my fair share of SBF motors. Good engines. Never had an issue with any of them, but now I am a bit disappointed with the thought of going that route, versus an FE.
The Coyote would fit my needs, but I cannot bring myself to raise the hood/bonnet and not want to cringe as I see what is under it. It just does not feel right, no matter how logically correct it may be, it simply looks and feels wrong. I do not think I can shake how I feel about it. This may be a kit, but it still is a car which harkens back to a time where engines were loud and nasty. It is a Cobra. It was never a nice car. It has always been loud, mean, and nasty. I have a nice car in our Lexus. I want a Cobra.
Which brings me back to the SBF. Sigh. I really should not be disappointed. The SBF is a good motor and makes respectable power. Solid aftermarket support now, and all that rot. Still....to have a brand spanking new cast iron FE....damn.
Skuzzy, my FE actually started as a 1970 390 block. Obviously it was checked and prepped before Southern built it. That was several years ago and I have no idea what stock they may currently have, but they had a number back then. Maybe some of the forum builders can comment on the used block market. I understand there is a shortage of "new" blocks, but is there really an issue re-working an original FE block?
__________________
Joe
Have fun and enjoy life, because when it is over, it is too late!
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by JST4FUN
I understand there is a shortage of "new" blocks, but is there really an issue re-working an original FE block?
There is not. 390s just don't have, generally speaking, as much room to play with as 428s do. That said, some of the older engine builders will still tell you that a "seasoned block" is superior to a new block. And, of course, there is that once-in-a-blue-moon occasion when an old block will get through the dmv or emissions folks when a new block would not....
About two years ago I started thinking about a FFR Daytona Coupe/Coyote project. The project morphed to a FFR Cobra/Coyote, and then either a Kirkham or ERA with an FE. At first I was going to use a 390 but now the project is settled on an ERA with a Pond aluminum side-oiler with a solid roller and probably 650 HP+.
Would I have been happy with any of those projects? Absolutely. But I settled on the aluminum FE with solid rollers because I think it's cool and this project excites me more. No great rationale - I'm just doing it because I feel like it. Both the FE and Coyote are great options. The Coyote is closer to my daily driver and more reliable while the FE is closer to a 60's race car. See as many cars and engines as you can and figure out what excites you most.
Robert Pond told me not too long ago he still casts iron blocks. But, if you can swing the cost, why not go with aluminum? It's a very strong block and weighs as much as a small block.
Go with what your heart cries for. The whole idea of purchasing a Cobra to begin with is irrational.
Isn't that the truth.
After a little time, I may end up going with a 428. I just have to get passed the frustration with being so close to having that Genesis blocked motor in my engine bay.
For my purposes it would have been perfect.
Who knows, maybe one of those engine builders will have something in the shop by the time I am ready to write the check.
In the mean time, I'll keep perusing the catalogs of parts and doing all the math and worrying if the color of the wheels are going to look good with my paint, and visiting my kit in its storage unit....
I passed "nuts" a few miles back and am rolling into full blow crazy. Seems the closer I get, the more the irrational side takes over. At least my Wife has not posted pictures of me sitting (where the seat will be) in my kit going "vroom vroom ba-da-bup ba-da-bup ba-da-bup..." on her Facebook page.
__________________
Sometimes things really do go as planned.
With my idea of a street version, insane power (more than 400 HP) doesn't make sense for me. A really well done FE, especially a nice aluminum Pond, would be really sweet especially if I was doing an S/C or pure competition. But the cost and unused potential doesn't fit with my vision and budget.
And I have heard Coyotes really roar when you step on them. Someone had a '12 Mustang Cobra ripping up and down my street for a couple of weeks. (then suddenly nothing lol). I was at the FFR Spring get together one year and I remember a dark blue MK IV with a Coyote in the engine bay. What the owner did was basically hide all the wiring so it was a very clean look. I thought that setup looked really nice - especially when compared to the 4.6 mod motors and the 302s pulled out of old Mustangs.
However, I do agree that when you look at a well done replica and open the hood and not see a traditional motor under there it is a disappointment. That is why if I do a street 427, the 390 FE is so appealing. And the costs seem to be somewhat competative across the board - stock Coyote, mild 390, mild SBF. They all come out in the $6k - $8k range.
The biggest drawback I see with the Coyote is that most of the kit manufacturers haven't quite figured out how to make it fit. I hear stories on FFR about trying to get headers fitting, how the foot boxes are smaller, and that you basically need a shoehorn to get them in.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMurray
However, I do agree that when you look at a well done replica and open the hood and not see a traditional motor under there it is a disappointment.
Yep, I have personally witnessed children break down and cry when they saw a SBF in a car touted as having a "427" in it. Now that I think about it, grown men as well.
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked
If u want to "replicate" a Cobra the FE is the only choice.
To Patricks point..I always laugh to myself and just roll my eyes when I see a SB and the guy is telling everybody it's a 427 because its stroked to a 427.
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
If u want to "replicate" a Cobra the FE is the only choice.
To Patricks point..I always laugh to myself and just roll my eyes when I see a SB and the guy is telling everybody it's a 427 because its stroked to a 427.
so you tell 'em you have a fe? and they say what is that? a ford edsel!
pffft, not even a big block.
The Ford FE engine is a Ford V8 engine used in vehicles sold in the North American market between 1958 and 1976. A related engine, the Ford FT engine, was used in medium and heavy trucks from 1964 through 1978. The FE filled the need for a relatively lightweight medium block engine between the small block Ford Y-block and the big block 385 series engine, to form a larger family of V8 engines than its competitors fielded.
The biggest drawback I see with the Coyote is that most of the kit manufacturers haven't quite figured out how to make it fit. I hear stories on FFR about trying to get headers fitting, how the foot boxes are smaller, and that you basically need a shoehorn to get them in.
I saw a nice Backdraft Friday in San Marcos with a Coyote motor in it. A different look, but I thought it looked really nice in there. He had some nice covers on it. It ran good and sounded good.
4Likes
Hybrid Mode
