FE vs Coyote

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by blykins

My personal opinion is that a cobra should be loud, nasty, and have more power than you can handle. Going with EFI, radios, A/C, etc is just too "bimmer" or "corvette" for me.

In my mind, the coyote is just not cost effective...but to each their own.

Tell us about your Cobra? Or your bimmer, or your corvette? Or maybe our replica you get ice cream with on Sunday?

My personal opinion is if you write the check you also determine what your car and engine is. Perhaps you need some guidance, but when you list your wishes, then whoever you hand that check to needs to fulfill that as best they can.

A 2400# car "needs" about 400hp and a skilled driver to put 99% of us in embarrassment. The rest is do I measure above or below?

[andig]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question as it is all a matter of personal preference.

I have had two Cobra's, not an FE but one with a 427R with 8 stack with 600 horses and the same amount of torque and now one with a Coyote with around 475 hp and much less torque.

If you want the classic look, lumpy and noisy idle go with the 427. If you aren't bothered about originality, the coyote is still a great looking motor under the hood, is very smooth and actually pretty damn loud when you put your foot into it. Also the car handles better with less weight in the nose and frankly with the right gearing (3.91), you don't miss the torque because the car is so light and the thing revs for fun.

It certainly doesn't turn the car into a *****cat either and I am sure it will still bite my ass like a 427 would if I try and take liberties with it.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy

[AL427SBF]

Get the Coyote and have peace of mind of reliability with plenty of performance vs. a closer clone that's going to mess up your garage floor and a pain in the ass to maintain

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Tell us about your Cobra? Or your bimmer, or your corvette? Or maybe our replica you get ice cream with on Sunday?

Them's sound like fightin words

--

Just curious - why the general consensus suggests it is "OK" then to discuss the Coyote for a cobra but "taboo" to mention LS series?

If it were me, and I was going something other than an FE.
I'd politely skip over the coyote and probably go for an LS7.

It's small, light, stout makes more power without the requirement/expense/weight/complication of intercoolers, blowers and supercharging, has 6 bolt mains caps, forged internals, titanium rods, etc... still gets 30mpg, and (Now this is going to hurt ) at least it's a real 427

I'm just sayin' if you're going to compromise, compromise properly!

[Dimis]

By the way Les - If you pass on the Hurricane, I'm sure Cashburn could hook you up with a BDR with what ever engine you like

[951mat]

I think with under car exhaust, you're moving away from the crazy loud cobra sounds anyway. That would lean me towards the coyote. It will still sound nice I'm sure. You might even be able to speak to your passenger

I'm surprised no ones mentioned the t5. I assume it needs beefing up for either motor. I also believe tko600s don't even want to spin/shift behind a coyote pulling to 7000rpm, without mods. Maybe those mods arent a big deal? Maybe someone can add to that.

Mat

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Uh, nope.

Uh Ya, do some research, cam profile the same, both 5.0 litre, oh ya the Coyote has a plastic intake, the DOHC magnesium, but like I said the Cammer put out more power, you will learn someday just have to use Google.. keep selling the Coyote, it's a good way to get them to buy a second car when they realize they should have gotten an FE..

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Them's sound like fightin words

--

Just curious - why the general consensus suggests it is "OK" then to discuss the Coyote for a cobra but "taboo" to mention LS series?

If it were me, and I was going something other than an FE.
I'd politely skip over the coyote and probably go for an LS7.

It's small, light, stout makes more power without the requirement/expense/weight/complication of intercoolers, blowers and supercharging, has 6 bolt mains caps, forged internals, titanium rods, etc... still gets 30mpg, and (Now this is going to hurt ) at least it's a real 427

I'm just sayin' if you're going to compromise, compromise properly!

Good point, could not of said it better myself...

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Tell us about your Cobra? Or your bimmer, or your corvette? Or maybe our replica you get ice cream with on Sunday?

My personal opinion is if you write the check you also determine what your car and engine is. Perhaps you need some guidance, but when you list your wishes, then whoever you hand that check to needs to fulfill that as best they can.

A 2400# car "needs" about 400hp and a skilled driver to put 99% of us in embarrassment. The rest is do I measure above or below?

My car weights 2100# and has 600hp, but who's counting...

[undy]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Them's sound like fightin words

--

Just curious - why the general consensus suggests it is "OK" then to discuss the Coyote for a cobra but "taboo" to mention LS series?

If it were me, and I was going something other than an FE.
I'd politely skip over the coyote and probably go for an LS7.

It's small, light, stout makes more power without the requirement/expense/weight/complication of intercoolers, blowers and supercharging, has 6 bolt mains caps, forged internals, titanium rods, etc... still gets 30mpg, and (Now this is going to hurt ) at least it's a real 427

I'm just sayin' if you're going to compromise, compromise properly!

Hell yes!!!

My LS7 in my 07 Z06 produces an honest 650hp with heads and a small cam. I lays down about 620 lb ft of torque too. Where can you get a NA OEM small block that idles all day in traffic with the A/C on and still knock down 10.50s @ 137 with sticky tires??

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Tell us about your Cobra? Or your bimmer, or your corvette? Or maybe our replica you get ice cream with on Sunday?

My personal opinion is if you write the check you also determine what your car and engine is. Perhaps you need some guidance, but when you list your wishes, then whoever you hand that check to needs to fulfill that as best they can.

A 2400# car "needs" about 400hp and a skilled driver to put 99% of us in embarrassment. The rest is do I measure above or below?

My Cobra was a Shell Valley replica, with a 428FE, 11:1 compression, solid roller cam, and a Tunnel Wedge. It was nasty and rowdy.

My Corvette was a '73, with a mild 350, CD player, cup holder, and other assorted niceties.

Not sure why you took offense to my post, but here's a gentleman wanting advice on which engine to go with. I gave my two pennies. I shouldn't be flamed for that should I? I didn't think so. I mean, I even gave the obligatory, "Just my opinion" statement in front of my paragraph.

My other opinion is that a Coyote is a huge cost for just 400hp....

Pete, now buddy, your car doesn't even have an engine yet....unless you went with another builder....???

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by blykins

My other opinion is that a Coyote is a huge cost for just 400hp....

Cost of ownership.

[blykins]

Explain your point, because I still don't agree.

The fact that you have to pay that price for an engine that is only 400 hp is not a selling point for me. I'm sure you have a deal with Ford Racing, but the prices I'm seeing are around $6300-6500 for the engine, and another $1500-ish for the support items. Is that pretty close?

Trying to sell a Cobra and telling the prospective buyers that it's only 400 hp....again, not a selling point.

I'm in hardy agreement that part of the builder's role is to "size up" the customer, talk over all different options, then meet his needs to the fullest. But, you wouldn't believe how many guys have come to me saying, my engine is 400, 450, 500, 550 hp, and I'm getting used to it...I need something more.

There are lots of guys out there that can handle a large amount of horsepower in a tiny car...

[JST4FUN]

I went through the same process several years ago. The real answer is it is what you want, it really gets down to personal preference! My personal preference was a 390 punched to a 406 from Southern Automotive. It is a real FE and looks like a 427. It has a streetable cam, but has a really good lope. On the dyno, 350hp @ 5400 and 390ft-lb @ 4200, which works well for me, great torque curve making it fun to drive. I will say that when I ride in my buddy's 600+hp 427SO, it's a rush...but I've had far fewer mechanical problems. Les, email me if you have any questions about SA's 390 platform from an owner's perspective!

I will add that my goal was to have as close of a 65 Cobra 427S/C replica as I could afford. After establishing what I really wanted, the FE was the logical choice for me.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by blykins

Explain your point, because I still don't agree.

The fact that you have to pay that price for an engine that is only 400 hp is not a selling point for me. I'm sure you have a deal with Ford Racing, but the prices I'm seeing are around $6300-6500 for the engine, and another $1500-ish for the support items. Is that pretty close?

Trying to sell a Cobra and telling the prospective buyers that it's only 400 hp....again, not a selling point.

I'm in hardy agreement that part of the builder's role is to "size up" the customer, talk over all different options, then meet his needs to the fullest. But, you wouldn't believe how many guys have come to me saying, my engine is 400, 450, 500, 550 hp, and I'm getting used to it...I need something more.

There are lots of guys out there that can handle a large amount of horsepower in a tiny car...

Great point, that's why I'm getting a Blykins built FE, need more POWER

[Skuzzy]

Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.

Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote. I have built my fair share of SBF motors. Good engines. Never had an issue with any of them, but now I am a bit disappointed with the thought of going that route, versus an FE.

The Coyote would fit my needs, but I cannot bring myself to raise the hood/bonnet and not want to cringe as I see what is under it. It just does not feel right, no matter how logically correct it may be, it simply looks and feels wrong. I do not think I can shake how I feel about it. This may be a kit, but it still is a car which harkens back to a time where engines were loud and nasty. It is a Cobra. It was never a nice car. It has always been loud, mean, and nasty. I have a nice car in our Lexus. I want a Cobra.

Which brings me back to the SBF. Sigh. I really should not be disappointed. The SBF is a good motor and makes respectable power. Solid aftermarket support now, and all that rot. Still....to have a brand spanking new cast iron FE....damn.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Skuzzy

Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.

Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote....

You are not stuck. The solution is a quality, tested, 428 block with the extra webbing for the crank. They are getting harder to find, but they're still there, and it will suit your needs -- guaranteed. Just tell blykins or keith or barry that's what you want, and they'll find it for you. Maybe not day after tomorrow, but they'll find it.

[1ntCobra]

Doesn't Pond sell a cast iron block as well as an aluminum block?

Originally Posted by Skuzzy

Originally, I was going to go with a SBF for my car, but then I started getting the FE itch and was all but ready to pull the trigger for it (not the build trigger, the decision trigger), for my car,...until I found out you can no longer get new FE cast iron blocks.

Now I am stuck with either SBF or Coyote. I have built my fair share of SBF motors. Good engines. Never had an issue with any of them, but now I am a bit disappointed with the thought of going that route, versus an FE.

The Coyote would fit my needs, but I cannot bring myself to raise the hood/bonnet and not want to cringe as I see what is under it. It just does not feel right, no matter how logically correct it may be, it simply looks and feels wrong. I do not think I can shake how I feel about it. This may be a kit, but it still is a car which harkens back to a time where engines were loud and nasty. It is a Cobra. It was never a nice car. It has always been loud, mean, and nasty. I have a nice car in our Lexus. I want a Cobra.

Which brings me back to the SBF. Sigh. I really should not be disappointed. The SBF is a good motor and makes respectable power. Solid aftermarket support now, and all that rot. Still....to have a brand spanking new cast iron FE....damn.

[JST4FUN]

Skuzzy, my FE actually started as a 1970 390 block. Obviously it was checked and prepped before Southern built it. That was several years ago and I have no idea what stock they may currently have, but they had a number back then. Maybe some of the forum builders can comment on the used block market. I understand there is a shortage of "new" blocks, but is there really an issue re-working an original FE block?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by JST4FUN

I understand there is a shortage of "new" blocks, but is there really an issue re-working an original FE block?

There is not. 390s just don't have, generally speaking, as much room to play with as 428s do. That said, some of the older engine builders will still tell you that a "seasoned block" is superior to a new block. And, of course, there is that once-in-a-blue-moon occasion when an old block will get through the dmv or emissions folks when a new block would not....